"Lest We Forget"

[petetheprinta]

For my mates:

 

"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:

 

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

 

At the going down of the sun and in the morning,

 

We will remember them."

 

 

[Riley]

Thanks for that Pete. I witness a larger participation at the dawn ceremony which seems to include more unaccompanied adolescents each year (and this is good as it indicates they aren't being 'pressed' into attending with mom & dad) however, I was disappointed this morning to see a tea & scones stand set up not 30 meters from the cenotaph. Granted, it was by donation only and the ladies shut down during the short wreath-laying service and no doubts the proceeds will be directed to a worthy cause but somehow it just didn't seem appropriate on the hallowed grounds. Dunno, maybe I'm just a crotchety old b+stard?

 

 

[facthunter]

You're not that old Riley. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

On a more serious note, the occasion does seem to be catching on. Some years ago it was extensively opposed on the basis that it was "eulogising" WAR

 

. If the message continues on the theme of the pitifull waste of good lives, it achieves something.

 

If we send people to war we should honour them and look after them when they return, and their dependants, if they don't. Nev

 

 

[petetheprinta]

Thanks for that Pete. I witness a larger participation at the dawn ceremony which seems to include more unaccompanied adolescents each year (and this is good as it indicates they aren't being 'pressed' into attending with mom & dad) however, I was disappointed this morning to see a tea & scones stand set up not 30 meters from the cenotaph. Granted, it was by donation only and the ladies shut down during the short wreath-laying service and no doubts the proceeds will be directed to a worthy cause but somehow it just didn't seem appropriate on the hallowed grounds. Dunno, maybe I'm just a crotchety old b+stard?

Not so grumpy Riley, like all things it becomes more commercialised every year. Sadly smaller turnout where I am, cold and wet.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

We can thank the Call of Duty games for the renewed interest in military service.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

^ whatever that means who knows.

 

Not so grumpy Riley, like all things it becomes more commercialised every year. Sadly smaller turnout where I am, cold and wet.

Really? Must be different weather the other side perhaps, it was nice where we went at 6am and numbers were good. Wish a few more would sing the hymns and anthem though.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

the bogans have been flooding the anzac services since call of duty came out. call of duty is a computer game where you kill ayrabs and commies.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Let alone these ones do a rather good job of killing themselves. But no surprise you regard anyone who respects those that died in the service of country on their behalf as a bogan.

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't think attaching a defamatory category to a group of people advances the discussion very much. it would be pretty hard to draw the direct association that FT states. There are a lot of factors at play, of which that may be one, significant or otherwise. There are a lot of things out there shaping peoples attitudes. The advertising industry thrives on it. It doesn't have to have a single element of truth in it either. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

My local Federal member sent out a flier about Anzac day. I believe he is a Vietnam Vet, but the rest of the pollies give me the Sh*ts, the way they hang on the coat tails of our military. They like to push how good our troops are and if you disagree with the politics that send them to war you are disloyal to our troops. I would just love to see how the pollies survived in the services, would have loved to have minister Smith in my squad in the army, he could have learned something.

 

 

[facthunter]

The current ones only inhereted the situation but they all supported it at the beginning. Lots of opportunities have been lost there. This Afghanistan thing has gone on for twice as long as WW2. No one likes their country being occupied by some one else for long, if ever. In that time (10 years) many things have changed. The country is tribal, as Europe was hundreds of years ago and is probably ungovernable in the modern sense. Nev

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I don't think attaching a defamatory category to a group of people advances the discussion very much.

Quite so; 'bogan' is the left's contemptuous term for what used to be called the working class.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

When I was a kid, Anzac Day was very low key dignified get together for the old soldiers and their families. Now you have more of glorification of war. I am guessing Gnu is a vietnam vet?

 

 

[petetheprinta]

Now you have more of glorification of war. I am guessing Gnu is a vietnam vet?

There's nothing glorious about war and conflict. It's more to respect and acknowledge the sacrifices of our "forefathers" friends, and family allowing us to live as we do now. The freedoms we have to, (within reason) do and say whatever we wish. Try discussing a topic like this is some countries of the world.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

You mean the US? They seem hell bent on going to war, I get the feeling that pacifism is really frowned upon over there.Its amazing how the military permeates their culture. I turned up at local airport in SLC and there was a squadron of Apache helicopters next too the hangars. Literally, 15 minuted from the CBD. I am on the train in the rockies in Colorado miles from anything and a train with 20 m1 tanks comes rolling through the other way. I get off the plane in Lincoln and there are 3 KC135 refueler jets parked next to the carpark. The museum outside lincoln was impressive, never seen so many warplanes in one place.

 

The lasting memory I have about the RSL and Anzac Day marches was its disgraceful attitude to the nashos, vietnam vets and their families. My dad was a nasho and served in malaya and he reckons the RSL didn't want to know about him and his mates when they got back. As a kid I remember hearing stories about the WW2 vets that wouldn't march with the Vietnam vets. Letting Anzac day get coopted by the government to glorify war is a big mistake on the part of the RSL.

 

 

[winsor68]

I think the sad part is the complete lack of knowledge displayed by so many people regarding our ANZACs... I find it quite disrespectful to their memory.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Win, some people just want attention, and will do anything to get it. Just disregard it, they count for nothing.

 

 

[shags_j]

Let's not belittle those who attend by calling them names and questioning their motives.

 

I was at the brisbane parade yesterday and something that absolutely struck me:

 

Beside me was a young chinese couple, behind me was a middle eastern couple wiht a kid. A mediterranian lady in her 20's was there also. As far as you could see there was no single race that dominated the participants.

 

And what amazed me the most: They weren't there for the photo opportunities, they weren't there just to see what was going on. They clapped, and they all clapped each and every digger that walked by.

 

There was nothing I saw yesterday that Glorified War. It was an honest celebration of the sacrifice of those who served by a grateful public.

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

Let's not belittle those who attend by calling them names and questioning their motives.I was at the brisbane parade yesterday and something that absolutely struck me:

Beside me was a young chinese couple, behind me was a middle eastern couple wiht a kid. A mediterranian lady in her 20's was there also. As far as you could see there was no single race that dominated the participants.

 

And what amazed me the most: They weren't there for the photo opportunities, they weren't there just to see what was going on. They clapped, and they all clapped each and every digger that walked by.

 

There was nothing I saw yesterday that Glorified War. It was an honest celebration of the sacrifice of those who served by a grateful public.

I am not sure if the Call of Duty is what has renewed the interest from the younger ones it may of course have helped. Our 10yo grandson loves playing it here but at the same time he has an avid interest in his family history & quite often out of the blue will ask questions about his great great & great also his grand father & grandfather & what did he do in the war & where they died. Yesterday as soon as he was out of bed he put the tv on to watch a replay of the dawn service & asked where Gallipolli was. Then watched the march. I think the people that come to the parade genuinely want to become part of things it is just a handful that want to make trouble for all.

Cheers

 

Sue

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Its my understanding that Anzac day grew in popularity the 1920s because thousands of families had lost young men and they had never had a proper funeral service to pay respects to them. Many of the families never knew the circumstances of their sons's death and Anzac day gave them a chance meet their son's mates and find out the circumstances of their deaths. That collective grief has now past from our national conscience. Not to labour the point, but most people know not to cheer at a funeral service and Anzac day is still about remembering the sacrifices made by those soldiers and their families.

 

 

[biggles]

I got up at 0430 yesterday to go to the dawn service in Melbourne with wife and 42 y.o. son in the worst conditions imaginable . The number that attended in those appalling conditions , including very young children huddled under umbrellas , left a lasting impression . My eldest son attended the dawn service in suburban Brisbane.

 

Bob

 

 

[eightyknots]

 

I attended the ANZAC Day ceremony in Carterton New Zealand and got talking to some of the crew members of the HMAS Perth who were stationed in Port Nicholson (Wellington Harbour) about an hour's drive away. They represented the Australian High Commission at the ANZAC Day service and we heard a speech from one officer about what happened to the original HMAS Perth.

 

Carterton's service was also attended by the US ambassador. This is possible in Carterton because we're only a bit over an hour away from the capital city. Carterton reminds him of the town he grew up in in Pennsylvania.

 

When the crew found out I was an Australian, they asked me to be their "official photographer" for a number of photos with dignitaries. When I had finished taking their photos, I took one with my own camera. In the centre is the mayor of Carterton (Ron Mark) who had been given a new hat from the crew clearly showing HMAS Perth. The mayor himself was in the military at one stage, serving in the Middle East.

 

It was a lovely, sunny day, about 20 degrees. I have been attending ANZAC Day marches here in Carterton more than ten years and the number of younger people attending are increasing all the time. I don't think it is due to any computer games! I think it is due to better education about the freedoms that the serving men and women bought for Australia and New Zealand ...and frequently paid for with their own (young) lives. Lest we forget.

 

 

[facthunter]

The saddest aspect of my trip to the South Island was the monuments to the war fallen in each town. New Zealand , Australia and Canada lost a disproportionate number of people in the european wars. Russia lost the most.

 

Any thing that hilights the horrible loss of life healthy young people, the physical and economic damage done to the countries involved and the residue of hate left over, should act as a brake to the enthusiasm for war, some have. Nev

 

 

[kaz3g]

For my mates:"They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:

 

Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.

 

At the going down of the sun and in the morning,

 

We will remember them."

Thank you Pete.

 

Kaz