RA-Aus Board Forum

[cazza]

This seems a good place for RA-Aus members to ask questions about the organisation or the workings of the Board. As we have at least one Board member on this forum, perhaps she can answer questions and also find out what members think on various issues? Keep in mind she will be giving her interpretation of policies and processes, but she is interested in what members have on their minds.

 

Cazza

 

 

[bushpilot]

I think that is a good idea - provided the thread doesn't degenerate to 'Board Bashing'. This has happened in other Forums that I have been a member of, and it tends to turn people off; particularly those that are obliged to defend the position of the Boards - i.e. a Board member.

 

 

[Ross]

Hi All

 

The old AUF forum got pretty verbose, repetitive and pretty nasty after a while. There was was no way to know if what was being published was influenced by vested interests, was true or the complete truth or was presenting both sides of the argument.

 

When I joined that forum not long before its demise I took the trouble to go back and read all the available old posts. What I noticed in particular was that I often felt that not all the background or agenda was available or being presented on the topics under discussion as many of them seemed to run for longer than the historical record was available. I think that the organisation would have had to spend an unrealistic amount of time on the remarks coming from a very small proportion of the membership via that forum at that time.

 

It is an interesting idea but it seems to me as a result of what we have been through that face to face meetings are potentially a better way of dealing with our problems. After all we have representatives to collate and present our woes to the organisation. I am not sure that all the business of the organisation should be discussed in the public forum.

 

However the scene is vastly different now with a more mature organisation and much larger membership with a new different regime to operate under.

 

The membership of this forum would probably represent about 10% of the membership of the current RAAus not much different from the percentage of the membership that were members of the old AUF forum before its closure.

 

Regards

 

 

[Guest brentc]

I would be interested to know how many members of this forum are actually RA-Aus members. I know of many that aren't. I can't recall when joining, if there was an option to select if you were an RA-Aus member? Perhaps Ian this could be added for your information?

 

 

[Admin]

Brent, there isn't an option to specify if you are an RAAus member or not but through my own analysis as Administrator I can say that the majority of forum members are RAAus members and it is specifically for these people that these forums were established.

 

There are also members here that, like you, who predominately fly VH registered aircraft and a very few that are not RAAus members but these types of people will always come across this site in their travels and it is up to us pure RAAus members (even if we also have a PPL) that choose to mostly fly RAAus registered aircraft to show them how much fun we can have, the range of registerable aircraft available in the RAAus arena, how professional we are as aviators and the benefits of becoming an RAAus member.

 

What cazza is doing in starting this thread here is a great thing for the majority of the forum members as it gives us an opportunity to say things that will only help the RAAus movement be even better in what we enjoy today.

 

 

[cazza]

Hello everyone,

 

Well I wasn't a part of the history of the old forum and I'm sorry to hear it contained a fair bit of board bashing. What I would like to know is what is concerning members.

 

The board of RA-Aus meets face to face twice yearly. Between times, we debate, dicuss, vote on items using electronic means (forums, emails, phones). I am not sure there is any place where we actually post our meeting agendas for the February and September meetings or post the outcomes. I wonder if members are interested in knowing generally what the board is doing?

 

 

[Guest pelorus32]

Hello everyone,Well I wasn't a part of the history of the old forum and I'm sorry to hear it contained a fair bit of board bashing. What I would like to know is what is concerning members.

 

The board of RA-Aus meets face to face twice yearly. Between times, we debate, dicuss, vote on items using electronic means (forums, emails, phones). I am not sure there is any place where we actually post our meeting agendas for the February and September meetings or post the outcomes. I wonder if members are interested in knowing generally what the board is doing?

Hi Carol,

 

I'd very much like to know what the Board is working on - what they are working on and the outcomes of meetings. At the moment that is a bit of a black box for me.

 

As for what concerns me: Let's get Parts 103 and 149 finished, dusted and implemented. This is an election year. Unless this is done and dusted by sometime in September it won't happen until after a new government is settled in and we have been back through all the political work to bring a new Minister up to speed. Read 12 months minimum.

 

The current closing date for submissions is 2 July. That leaves just 2-3 months to have the whole thing wrapped up and passed in Parliament.

 

For me this is fundamentally an issue of achieving a sustainable and safe future for our movement. It impinges on all areas - administration, operations, safety....It may not be perfect but it's the best we have.

 

So my questions are these: What is the Board doing beyond the formal consultation process to persuade the politicians to get on with this and what do you want the members to do to aid in that process? (Again beyond the formal response process).

 

Long winded sorry.

 

Kind regards

 

Mike

 

 

[facthunter]

RAAus Board forum

 

Cazza, EVERYBODY in RAAus should be interested in the matters you describe. We are all affected with the outcomes of your deliberations & any improvement in communications ( both ways ) has to be to everybody's advantage in any organisation, especially one such as ours. You are after all, our REPRESENTATIVE.

 

If you want to do that, you should know our views, & WE should know how you represent US,.. I don't see this as such a radical idea, but it might be a bit of a change. Nev..

 

 

[Guest AusDarren]

I Know I'd be interested to read what is going on..

 

A news section on the website would be good..

 

Regards,

 

AusDarren

 

 

[cazza]

Hi Mike,

 

So my questions are these: What is the Board doing beyond the formal consultation process to persuade the politicians to get on with this and what do you want the members to do to aid in that process? (Again beyond the formal response process).

 

 

Off the top of my head, here are some ways in which the members of the board and ceo are working. First the ceo and executive engage in a good deal of lobbying formally and informally with the powers that be. They also work with other organisations (such as AOPA) to pressure those in power. All of the board members individually have responded to Part 103, and as we travel around to club meetings and fly-ins, we are talking to our members and encouraging them to respond to Part 103 as well as pressure their local member. So members can do as we are doing. Respond to part 103, lobby your local member, encourage your flying mates to do the same. Scary about this being an election year,though. I hope the last 5 years work doesn't fall in a big hole at the end of it.

 

Cazza

 

 

[cazza]

Mike, Factfinder and AusDarren,

 

Pleased to know there are people out there who are interested in what the organisation is doing on your behalf. Let me just say that in reporting things, you have to realise that some board decisions will not take effect until they appear in the new operations manual which then has to be approved by CASA. So here is a list of the hot board topics for the last 6 months, more definite information about the outcomes of these discussions will come when I am able to report. Some are in the 'in progress' stage an others await a formal beginning when the rewritten ops manual is approved.

 

1. Paul Middleton's replacement

 

2. The magazine

 

3. Parts 103 and 149

 

4. Improving Safety

 

5. Removing the curent restriction on training (3 hours prior to the 15th birthday)

 

6. Rewriting the operations manual

 

7. REwriting the technical manual

 

8. Finding a means of training Level 2's and LSA maintenance people that is not cost prohibitive and will encourage our members to upskill.

 

9. Honouring our pioneers who contribute so much to the movement

 

10. Organising Natfly

 

We also engage in a lot of routine work, like approving membership for various flying clubs. It's getting late. THanks for the interest. The Bravo Echo Delta is calling me.

 

Cazza

 

 

[facthunter]

Communication.

 

Thanks Cazza, for your response. I think we all realise there is plenty to be done. Regards ..Nev

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

"Removing the curent restriction on training (3 hours prior to the 15th birthday)"

 

Cazza, can you give me a heads up on what the current rule is, I have a 14yr old that wants to learn and I would like to start her now, understand she cant get the license/certificate until 15 but wasnt aware of any other limitations.

 

Andy

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Hi Andy,

 

I may be able to fill you in a bit. At present an individual is able to do up to three hours training before joining the RAAus and to join the organisation your daughter needs to be 15 years of age. At the last board meeting it was decided that we would align ourselves closer to the current GA standard and set no age limit on joining the RAAus.

 

Your daughter will still have to be 15 before she can solo but at least she can commence training earlier (once the Ops Manual has been altered - maybe 6 months away). The situation currently exists whereby young students have to start training on a GA type and once they attain the age of 15 can then complete their training in an RA aircraft, shear lunacy.

 

On a personal note I think its great because it means my son (on the left) can have more than three hours to improve his landings, which still leave a bit to be desired.

 

Nick

 

 

[drifterdriver]

My fellow aviators,

 

I have one important point about what you can do for your organisation as opposed to what your organisation can do for you. I was talking to Lee Ungermann recently and the response from members about the NPRM was unbelievably low, embarassingly so. A number of extentions have occurred and assuming they continue to happen there is probably still time to send emails, make calls, hassle your mates, put a notice on the club house wall etc whatever it takes to get more people to respond.

 

We don't look all that bright as an organisation when hardly anyone bothers to spend 10 minutes on something as important as this and it does nothing for our negotiational stand point either.

 

Off the soap box now.

 

Nick

 

 

[cazza]

Thanks Nick. I tend to think the new ops manual is closer than 6 months, which would be great for people like Andy.

 

Cazza

 

 

[Ross]

Hi CAZZA

 

I tried to respond to the SASA online questionnaire on the proposed new rules. However I had to give up the online method as for some reason it would not accept my response.

 

Luckily there was an alternative more painful and expensive process allowing me to print the forms, fill them in, put them in an envelope drive about three kilometres and post them off to CASA as a free post item.

 

I think the forms were in PDF files requiring you to download Acrobat reader if you did not already have it installed.

 

If this experience was typical it may have been enough to stop people responding. I was very tempted as I had to print out a number of pages and fill them all in after I had just done so with the on line version!

 

Mind you, the effort of filling them in was very minor requiring only a few ticks over a number of pages.

 

Perhaps a questionnaire by RAA on the difficulty if any of filling in and sending the online version might be appropriate or was I just unlucky or more stupid than usual.

 

Regards

 

 

[Guest TOSGcentral]

I would like to thank Cazza for her offer and also Nick who is now joining in. It is really great to think that a couple of the Board Members see the need and the positives for direct two way contact with a broad member base and more information transfer – especially as it is very difficult for some to visit Board Members for face to face meetings, plus a wider input of specialised knowledge can be added to threads.

 

 

I do tend to agree with Ross that there is ample scope for volatility here and some maturity is going to be required. I see the weak points as potential ‘barrow pushing’ from vested interests that may not be immediately obvious, but mainly if a ‘hot topic’ comes up then quite a number of view points could be brought up and the central thread become disjointed and tiresome.

 

 

This would give work to the Moderators because in usual cases where a parallel but valid line of debate emerges it is more productive to excise associated posts and put them in a new thread that the Moderator starts.

 

 

However so far so good on the way the thread is developing!

 

 

My main concern is comments about ‘Board Bashing’ and these have to be seen in the correct context. Flagrant emotive attacks against the Board as a whole or individual Board Members should not be countenanced – just keep it simple, factual questions that need an answer.

 

 

Equally, when those questions do come up – as they will – and are obviously going to be embarrassing to the Board, then see that not as “Board Bashing†but valid member input.

 

 

I do disagree with some comments made here that the members are disinterested in Board affairs. A lot of members are extremely interested about what the Board is doing – because we actually hear so little!

 

 

When I was on the Board (and also Pat McGrath) we faithfully put in comprehensive Board Reports on Board Meetings in the magazine because AUF would not! Those reports ceased on both our resignations and have not been taken up since!

 

 

Certainly, in my view, a great deal of the “us†and “them†mentality has stemmed from distancing of the Board from the membership via lack of communication and has caused both extreme frustration in the membership, probably feelings of “we are not appreciated†on the part of Board members and it is time that was obliterated!

 

 

Cazza’s most welcome opening post is a sign of the first positive steps towards just an “usââ‚ mentality and actuality! Good on Ya!

 

 

Tony Hayes

 

 

[cazza]

Hi Ross, Thanks for sharing your saga with me. It reminds me how important it is to make it simple for people to respond otherwise, they will get frustrated and give up if the process is too tiresome. Thanks for sticking with it. I think the answer is a "how to respond" bit and give the members the url and info on Acrobat etc, to make it as foolproof and easy as possible.

 

Thanks for the good hint.

 

Cazza

 

 

[cazza]

Hi Tony, After seeing your training manuals and the work you have done to assist learning to fly (a subject dear to my heart) I feel a bit overawed that you would take the time to sign on in this forum. Thank you for your encouragement and for a bit of the history. I think Nick and I would be pleased to put Board reports into the magazine and also keep this forum informed as far as possible. It's been done before by you and Pat, so there is no reason why we can't do it again.

 

Cheers, Cazza

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Hello to all.

 

Sadly, after discussing the matter with Lee, due to the back and forth processes currently in place between ourselves and CASA regarding changes to the Ops Manual it may take considerably longer than we would like for anything to occur in the area of changes to training and six months may even prove to be optimistic.

 

I concur with the problems filling in the NPRM forms and I have had a number of members who have faced the same difficulties. I would like to applaud your efforts Ross in getting the job done.

 

Regarding Board Reports, I think it would be of great benefit to the membership to have a better idea of what was happening and hopefully this forum can to some degree assist this occurring. Before joining the Board I personally only met a Board member once in almost 20 years of membership and I can understand to a point why some may feel distanced from the Board. I hope that both Carol and myself can help to allieviate this situation.

 

Hope to see some of you at Inglewood on Sunday, subject to weather.

 

Nick

 

 

[Yenn]

If a board member could give us updates on this forum that would be very good. As far as board bashing my outlook is to read what someone says and then work out what they mean. In life nowadays you will find people telling all sorts of stories to prop up their point of view and little relationship to the truth in some of them. I like to sort out their reasoning and if I find they are stretching the truth they have lost all credibility. I think this is required in all forms of interchange, especially in politics.

 

 

[facthunter]

Truthfullness.

 

Ian,

 

They say it's easy to tell when a politician is lying . His/ her lips move.

 

Seriously though, these people work for us for no reward . That's fine in its own right, but it's not enough. This forum is a ready made opportunity for information to be disseminated. The board could issue statements / recommendations officially here, if it chose to do so.

 

Of course ,not everybody is on line so, some members may feel left out of it, but thats not enough justification to not use the facility. Snail mail could be available for those who notify their desire for it, ( & perhaps are billed for it,as it all comes at a cost, as does being on-line).

 

The only time that I find out anything about the candidates is prior to election time, when space is made available in the magazine. I would like to think that I know enough about a candidate to help to elect the best person by voting for him/her. I'd like to know that he/she is working in my/our interests, and not promoting their own. If we support the best people ,we have more chance of getting & retaining them.

 

Some may attack anyone in authority because of an "against the government always" attitude, but I think that would be a tiny minority, Others are pi**** off because it hasn't been explained to them properly. Other times (dare I say it , IT ISN'T DONE PROPERLY) On these occasions ,If they occur, whoever has done the deed has to answer for it. but we don't shoot you at dawn, as we are reasonable people aren't we?

 

I'd like to thank Chris (Techman,) nick & carol (see it doesn't hurt much, does it?) I'm off the soap box now Regards Nev....

 

 

[Guest Juliette Lima]

Hi all,

 

I too would like to thank Nick,Carol and Chris for their willingness to inform us of the Boards activities, however i still wonder why some have an expectation that they should do it on this site.....don't they have their own (Brilliant) website ?

 

On another matter, the quality of posts throughout Recreational Flying forums are simply terrific and informative,,,, we really have some great contributors on a wide range of topics.

 

Great weekend coming up....

 

JL

 

PS The emphasis being on 'expectation'

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Hello all,

 

Thanks for all the comments and particularly JL. Personally, I see this forum as a wonderful opportunity to spread the word about the RAAus and I would like to congratulate all who help make this forum possible. As this forum is a commercial venture (which I have no problem with and actually recommend Ian's products to my students and use them myself) I think it could be remiss of the RAAus to utilise this site as an official means of communication. The RAAus and Board have to act and also be seen as acting impartial and favouring one commercial operator over another would do considerable harm to the organisation. Another point is moderation, having this in the hands of a commercial operation would obviously again leave the RAAus open to all kinds of perceived conflicts of interest. Carol, Chris and I are more than happy to continue doing what we are doing at the moment and we all appreciate the opportunity to keep members informed.

 

On the subject of Board candidates I agree that its important to vote for the most suitable person. The Board currently has a blend of retired pilots, new pilots, people who fly for fun and those that instruct and I think this is a great way to get a cross-section of membership and views. I wouldn't like to see the Board dominated by one group or another and I certainly wouldn't like to see it full of aircraft salesmen. Recently a member told me that they felt that there shouldn't be any instructors on the board as they would be doing it only for their personal gain. I for one derive no advantage over another instructor by being on the Board as I am already busier than I want to be. I also feel it is a good thing to have someone on the Board with experience and who is regularly meeting and bringing in new members and knows their concerns but that's just my thoughts. Whatever your opinion try to find out more about your local candidates and if anyone has any ideas on how the RAAus can help to make this happen please post them here.

 

Nick