Another Jab bites the dust.

[facthunter]

Is nothing sacred? Glad you are still alive 'locks. Nev

 

 

[rick-p]

Hi all, I am going to put up a link to a crash that happened about 10 years ago.The only reason why I am adding it.Is because fellow members here have been stone walled in the past when asking questions about why their engines have failed. Alot of you guys will have already seen this. www.jabirucrash.comPlease dont think that I have put this up as Jabiru Bashing.I have put it purely for members who may be interested. It shows how much the engines have changed over the years.

PS- If Jabiru went back to the solid lifter, with the new heads, the new through bolts and nuts.I would look at buying one myself.It may be a pain to check/adjust valves every 25 hours with the solid lifters.But it appears that they where very good.What do you guys think?

 

PS- there is a article on there called "Flying behind a Jabiru engine"He built a Kitfox. Where the owner loves his engine after engines mods where done in 2005. Never had CHT cooling issues after installing the bigger Carb and bigger heads.

 

Cheers

It's funny that you should say that dazza because that's exactly what I was told quite some time ago by a mainstream player at Jabiru, I won't give you his name but will say that he said to me that he would not swap his solid lifter motor for the hydraulic motor under any circumstances. I think my motor is one of the last 5 solid lifter 2200 motor's built. Also it was installed in my Lambada when the Lambada was new with already 105 hrs on it as they couldn't get a motor overseas for it so they took the motor out of a flying school Jab, I think in Ireland (as the story goes).

 

My motor never had an oil cooler on it when I purchased it but now it has which did help resolve a few earlier issues I had with oil pressure.

 

My temps and pressures are always good but I was wondering if some of this was due to the fact that maximm rev's attainable on my engine on take off and climb out is 27oo rpm.

 

I could cruise all day if I want at 215o rpm giving me a comfortable 93knts.

 

Any comments or ideas, Nev?

 

Regards,

 

Rick-p

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Sounds like a great motor, Rick. The Jab engine blokes warned me about running it too slow. The advice is to avoid the rev band you mention, and "don't baby it". Glazing the bores was one predicted result of not working it hard.

 

 

[SAJ]

Turboplanner has made a very valid point. As a member of the "Jabiru Engine Failure club" I too need answers, and in spite of all the work the engine manufacturer has done, the problem refuses to go away.If just one example of an engine fails, then the aircraft owner has a problem. If many engines of the same type fail for the same reason, then the engine-maker has a problem.

 

I will re-iterate a comment I made on another thread relating to through-bolts: if Jabiru offered a choice of Rotax or Jabiru engines they'd double the sales of their airframes overnight, and Rotax would have to open another factory to keep up with the demand for their engines.

 

When you buy a Boeing or an Airbus you get a choice of engines. Is it such a retrograde step for Jabiru to swallow their pride and do the same? Even losing perhaps 15Kg of load-carrying capacity would justify the reliability and performance gains, especially if in-flight adjustable propellers were offered as a further option.

 

Must we lose lives before something genuinely effective is done to address this persistent and disturbing trend?

Dieselten, as far as I know Boeing and Airbus don't make their own engines.

I can understand why Jabiru don't offer a choice of engines for their airframes, Jabiru make their own planes and their own engines. So if you buy a factory built Jabiru you get a Jabiru engine, but if you buy a Jabiru kit you can put in any engine you like in it.

 

SAJ

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Well, it's their loss.

 

 

[jetjr]

I dont do them in 20 minutes, there are 12 tappets to adjust at 20 mins that suggests approx 90 sec's per tappet....Man thats moving!!!!!! Andy

Come on Andy, thats not too tough, Im not saying it takes 20 minutes to do a 50hrly, just the tappets, heads are already open, inspections done, In my experience often they dont need adjusting. The idea they need doing at 25hrs and they are tight by then is certainly not the case on either of the solid engines Ive had

 

The point being it really isnt a major job and these older engines seem to be less of a problem.

 

 

[facthunter]

They only need checking at close intervals early in the life of the engine when everything is settling in. If only small changes are happening (later), extend the interval. The hardest part is doing the head bolts carefully. You need to" crack" (unlock) the partially seized threads to get a proper tension reading on the hot areas. Nev

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Come on Andy, thats not too tough, Im not saying it takes 20 minutes to do a 50hrly, just the tappets, heads are already open, inspections done, In my experience often they dont need adjusting. The idea they need doing at 25hrs and they are tight by then is certainly not the case on either of the solid engines Ive hadThe point being it really isnt a major job and these older engines seem to be less of a problem.

Yeah, your right, in the context of the whole job, I agree that its not a big increment in time to check and where necessary set and then document.

 

Andy

 

 

[jetjr]

Ive found this problem on older heads where temps are more of an issue, new fine finned heads never seem to require tightening, they run around 30 degrees cooler

 

Theres a good tool to be made which makes tappet adjustment much easier and less chance of mistakes - it in the solid lifter engine book

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Mine has the older style heads, but I did put a much bigger lip on the lower cowl when I glassed in the newer oil cooler opening with a view to a much larger venturi affect on the colling air.....

 

Just out of interest did your engine come with the finer finned heads, or was it an after supply fix.. If the later what sort of cost?

 

Andy

 

 

[jetjr]

Yes I did that cowl upgrade too, helped but nothing like new heads did

 

The new heads are standard on Jab rebuilt engines and a key reason I went that way when time was up on first engine.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

So from your experience would you wait until TBO, or just do it now, or at the next top end?

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Did anyone one see last nights news of a forced landing of a C150 at Bringelly? Footage showed major cylinder seperation from the engine. The aircraft landed with the entire front left cylinder hanging outside the cowl attached only by one plug lead.

 

No other damge to aircraft or occupants.

 

 

[facthunter]

Ozzie, some of those cylinders would have done 4.000 hours. Ive seen them so rusty I wouldn't like them on my lawnmower. Not that they would fit but you know what I mean..nev

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Yes i have seen plenty of the same over the years. Some separate at the threads were the head screws on. Most just leave a ding in the cowl and if the piston is still in the barrel you can still get a bit of power from the remaining. But never seen one totally ejected thru the cowl like that one did.

 

 

[facthunter]

No that's true. I've only seen that on croppies with high hour engines. Usually the 0-200 just cracks around the exhaust port, and keeps running. Everything has to get old. nev

 

 

[pudestcon]

the entire front left cylinder hanging outside the cowl attached only by one plug lead.

Now that would not be a good look... Could be funny to see as a bystander though:smile:

 

Pud

 

 

[facthunter]

A friend of mine had an engine blow on a Cessna Titan or something like that and the cowl damage was so extensive that it would not fly level on one engine. The return to land had to be a powered glide all the way. They are not called "infernal" combustion engines for nothing. Nev

 

 

[Sapphire]

Our J160 suffered an engine failure on takeoff yesterday afternoon. It gave no indication it was about to pack it in. My junior Instructor (I_Like_planes) was doing circuits with a student.

A while back a pilot I knew had an engine failure in a Sapphire with a Rotax 503. The engine ran rough and cleared a few times. He said the fuel flow meter and other instruments were swinging wildly. Eventually he flipped upsidedown landing in a high wheat paddock and spent some time trapped trying to break open the pinned canopy. A long investigation showed there was fuel in the tanks, in the fuel line, in the carbys, and it was not contaminated. The CDI units were functional, the plugs and wiring were functional. Conclusion was that some temporary mysterious electrical fault caused the problem.

 

 

[mr badger]

make an aircraft not to bad make an engine and let pilots do the research and development on them see what happens and fix it as they go sound like a cheap way to make an aircraft my old flying school had one got rid of it sharp, and hated the jab engine

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

In January there was a discussion on a 'new' Jabiru motor.... http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/new-jabiru-engine.32531/This motor seemed to be addressing the problems in the existing incantation... Does anyone have any update on the progress of the new unit?

I know of 2 of the latest that had less than 20 hrs brand new not reco that had top end related in flight failures, I relayed a mayday for one of them.

 

 

[damkia]

make an aircraft not to bad make an engine and let pilots do the research and development on them see what happens and fix it as they go sound like a cheap way to make an aircraft my old flying school had one got rid of it sharp, and hated the jab engine

No disrespect intended, but could an effort please be made to make some intelligible sense by the use of some punctuation and common grammar?

There really is no need for "textspeak" here... we do not have a 140 character limit, and if you are younger that about 30 you would have learned to type properly more easily than you can use textspeak on a normal computer keyboard.

 

Common courtesy to the rest of us....

 

 

[kgwilson]

All these comments of "I know of" or "a mates 3rd cousins uncles brother had one etc" are total un-constructive, unnecessary and generally rubbish unless supported by actual documented facts. Ask me who has Jab engine that has 4500 hours & yes it has been rebuilt as it should have.

 

More problems are caused by tinkering than almost anything else & that applies to all engines plus people treating air cooled aero engines like a car & then cruising around at 2200rpm to save fuel. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

 

There's a good reason why they reach TBO in SA. They don't FWT.

 

 

[David Isaac]

That's a little rough Kev,

 

There are factually plenty of failed engines in SA as well, but your point is valuable. Why do some do TBO and others don't? There are plenty that don't do full TBO that have not been FW to use your acronym.

 

 

[eightyknots]

I don't want to throw a spanner in the works but a Coroner's report I read recently made some very straight-up-and-down findings about Rotax engines. Who would purchase a Rotax after reading that they contain substandard components, have been poorly tested, and have a tendency to stop suddenly? Among other things, it said:

 

...

 

An aircraft such as the Sting, which is high performance, has many of the characteristics of general aviation light aircraft, but is flown with an engine which the manufacturer declines to certify as airworthy due to its propensity to stop suddenly, and that its components would not be acceptable on general aviation aircraft. Further, Rotax engines are not tested to the level of general aviation engines, and the flimsy nature of the ultralight construction compromises occupants in a crash situation.

 

...

 

(the above are quotations from the report of the Smith and Guthrie accident in 2007 by Magistrate M Jerram, NSW State Coroner, 4 February 2009):