Crop Duster Down In Gippsland

[Louis Moore]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/pilot-killed-in-fiery-plane-crash-in-hallston-gippsland/story-e6frf7l6-1226343705535

[flyerme]

looks like a pawnee? wonder what happened? poor bugger.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

It's not a game for the faint hearted. Produces great pilots and big money if your good...........................................................................Maj...

 

 

[flyerme]

It's not a game for the faint hearted. Produces great pilots and big money if your good...........................................................................Maj...

was and is my dream to be a ag pilot, but the cost$$$$$$$$$$$$$ was way out of reach,

 

 

[Louis Moore]

It was Fatmann, overloading apparently

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Don't believe everything you hear. They can dump the entire load whenever they want. Let's hope it was over quickly for him.

 

 

[Tomo]

things happen quick near the ground.

 

 

[alf jessup]

The area he was working in is extremely hilly.

 

The Strezlecki ranges running down the southern length of the Latrobe Valley would have to be one of the most difficult areas to work for what these guys do and the area has claimed many a good aggy over the years.

 

Very hazardous area for aerial applications.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[David Isaac]

Very sad, they are all damn good pilots, at least the ones that survive are ... or at least lucky. Most have had more than a few close calls. Very sad all the same.

 

 

[nong]

Original Pawnee fibreglass front mount tank....yet again. The Kiwis banned this tank arrangement on Pawnees about fifty years ago. We have lost plenty of good pilots to this danger in Australia over those years. It looks as though he should have walked away from that one so it's a bloody shame.

 

 

[facthunter]

All true. Not a good way to go. No room for error or a failure in country like that. Nev

 

 

[alf jessup]

Original Pawnee fibreglass front mount tank....yet again. The Kiwis banned this tank arrangement on Pawnees about fifty years ago. We have lost plenty of good pilots to this danger in Australia over those years. It looks as though he should have walked away from that one so it's a bloody shame.

Dunno Nong,

 

Looks like a pretty hard impact at the top of the hill as the aircraft doesn't look like it slid very far, my guess is that the fire didn't do the damage to him.

 

Cheers

 

Alf

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I see the wings are intact ( sort of) looks like a much better place to store the fuel...

 

 

[facthunter]

Fuel is an ever present hazard. There is no perfectly safe place to have it. I'm surprised that crash proof tanks like race cars are not required in cropdusting aircraft ( and mustering aircraf,t helicopters, gyros.) Nev

 

 

[djpacro]

Fuel is an ever present hazard. There is no perfectly safe place to have it. ....

GA aircraft design standards have improved a whole lot over the years with respect to crashworthiness but not very many aeroplanes are built to those later design standards. Many US aeroplanes in production today were designed to the earlier FAR 23 (or earlier CAR 3) - the FAA has a policy (but not a rule) of requiring modifications to be designed to the new standards - if no mods to that part you get the original design still being produced. As for older aeroplanes - the FAA or CASA could propose an AD requiring a substantial design change through the NPRM process but I doubt whether it would happen.

[turboplanner]

Amazing, in self regulated motor racing we brought in safety tanks decades ago, but here we dither on.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Amazing, in self regulated motor racing we brought in safety tanks decades ago, but here we dither on.

What exactly is a 'safety tank' please Turbo... could you describe how these work?

 

 

[damkia]

What exactly is a 'safety tank' please Turbo... could you describe how these work?

Three different types that I am aware of...

 

In one version, the tank is filled with aluminium mesh (almost chicken wire in appearance and stuffed into the tank fairly densly), the aim is that the heat energy goes into the metal rather than the fuel. Aim is to reduce the vapur pressure. Combustion possible but slow - you can actually light the top of the can without it blowing up, it just produces a 6" flame as the heat is dispersed by the aluminium mesh.

 

Another version uses a porous foam in the tank that the fuel permeates through, leaving lots of filled areas of both air and fuel, but not in direct contact with each other = no combustion possible inside the tank.

 

Yet another has a rubber bladder in the tank that deflates with the use of it's contents, once again separating the fuel from the air by a non permeable membrane = no combustion possible

 

 

[turboplanner]

Firstly I agree with Alf, not much is known about this crash, and unless it was a second bounce, the very short grass removal area would indicate the impact got him rather than the fire.

 

have a look on the Dotars site at Australian Design Rules, 2nd edition, fuel systems for goods vehicles 17.5.4, 17.5.5, 17.6 - particularly the drop test for the tank - 9 metres onto an unyielding surface.

 

I wonder how many recreational aircraft would meet that test?

 

Here's the link: http://www.infrastructure.gov.au/roads/motor/design/second_edition_adrs.aspx

 

 

[facthunter]

It's an interesting subject but perhaps there are different criteria. Aircraft are not really designed to collide with anything. There is a minimal height drop test for the indercarriage and it doesn't even have to track properly afterwards. Dynamic air loads are catered for to a structural limit depending on the category, usually about 6G. A figure that few earth bound vehicles would meet and aircraft are relatively flimsy of necessity. There are few parts that you can lean on without care. She's a flimsy bird, but strong where needed. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

She's a flimsy bird, but strong where needed. Nev

....unless you condone your relatives or friends burning to death. We all used the same arguments in the car industry 40 years ago FH, and we were bulldozed, and so we should have been because it made us come up with lighter and immensely stronger motor vehicles.

 

...and they collide with the ground. 9 metres is only about 27 feet, and if you get a wind shear at 27, you are entitled to expect that when you slap the ground your fuel tank isn't going to burst. It needs a bomb put under a few arses to get some design going, that's all.

 

 

[facthunter]

No I don't condone anyone burning to death. There would be nothing worse in my books. I've ALWAYS recommended better fuel tanks. Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

I remember back in the day learning to be a Airframe fitter.We spent a bit of time on fuel tanks.We learned about rubber (bladder) fuel tanks.Some where self sealing.IE- they had a rubbery liquid between 2 layers of rigid rubber.The liquid type rubber was supposed to seal a leak.Only bullet hole size type hole.Nothing bigger.It was interseest reading about the bladder tanks for the Robbie R44.Apparently only 10 % of owners have retrofitted their A/c.New ones come out standard with the bladder.

 

 

[Louis Moore]

Was a GA-200 Fatman not a pawnee, I thought they had wing mounted tanks and not the forward fuse type?

 

this is from the gipps aero website about there fatmann

 

Crashworthiness

 

Field experience has shown that the crashworthy features built into the GA 200 series aircraft, such as wing mounted fuel tanks, work exceedingly well.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Everyone was assuming it was a Pawnee Louis, so that's where the fuse tank comments were coming from.