So it's not just us then........

[turboplanner]

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/planes-too-close-unsafe-landings-spark-special-probe/story-fn7x8me2-1226348197416

 

Sounds like there's some cleaning up to do

 

 

[dutchroll]

No it's certainly not just the Rec community, though the article is suitably vague on exactly how the separation standard was breached and without knowing that, it doesn't necessarily qualify as a near-death experience (if you were oceanic for example, you'd breach separation standards simply by coming within 50nm of each other). There's also a fair degree of anti-collision redundancy built into big planes and major airport operations which GA doesn't have.

 

All that being said, if there is a trend of separation breaches then certainly either the airlines or Airservices needs to look at what's going on.

 

 

[turboplanner]

You're right dutchroll, this will be technical breaches.

 

Sorry to the people who find they have to log on to read the story; I looked around for another news service which didn't have a login, but no one else seemed to be running it.

 

Historically in Australia Fairfax derived their income mainly from Advertising, and Rupert's News Ltd mainly from circulation, so you would expect News to have the bigger problem with the trend to online news.

 

So they are giving out "free 60 day subscriptions", presumably so they can start charging to use the online version of the newspaper.

 

There are some issues with this

 

1. They are double dipping, pumping up the ads over the top of the news, then charging

 

2. In cases like this where people communicate with links, it's not going to work well if people have to subscribe to every newspaper which has an interesting story

 

3. The end result will be the critical mass of comment which has boosted newspaper stories over the past five years will dry up again.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Turbo - if not registered you just cut and paste the headline into Google and go from there.

 

As the global warming scam has collapsed the newsmakers are looking for alternate scary headlines / articles for fillers.

 

 

[facthunter]

You guys know by now that media "clips" such as this tell you nothing, may actually mean nothing and lead into a more sensational possibility that needlessly scares passengers, but grabs your attention. They are there to sell newspapers, little more. What a waste of trees.

 

"News and Views". The invent the news and you get THEIR views

 

 

[dutchroll]

Turbo - if not registered you just cut and paste the headline into Google and go from there.As the global warming scam has collapsed the newsmakers are looking for alternate scary headlines / articles for fillers.

Actually the media can be unreliable with ALL sides of stories. Not just the sides you politically agree with.

Ask me about The Australian's reporting of last year's pilot dispute with Qantas sometime, and I'll show you evidence of a newspaper which has totally lost the plot. The Sydney DT was just as bad.

 

The funniest (saddest?) thing, is that many of us are so hyped up with our own entrenched political opinions, that we'll accuse the media of bias when they report something we politically disagree with, but praise the same media outlet the next day when they report something we politically agree with!

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

I wonder if it was this report released on 5th May by ATSB that promted the headline. The report details a breakdown of separation on 5th December 2010, but does not name the airlines. Airservices took actions based on the findings.

 

It describes a technical breakdown in separation between two departing aircraft, using the same initial IFR waypoints in which the preceeding aircraft flew below the expected IAS due to required climb rate and performance due to weight. While there were controller errors and an ATC procedure deficiency involved, the following aircraft had visual on the preceding one, which the controller had confirmed, but had not handed separation responsibility to the pilot. The separation did not reduce to the extent that TCAS activated.

 

The report quotes another instance occurring on 12 October 2011 that involved similar circumstances, but was also a bit different.

 

The report is a good one, and rather than yell "danger Will Robinson", the newspaper should be illustrating how technical breaches, which do not significantly risk the passengers are handled to continuously upgrade the safety procedures. Oh, I forgot...That sort of article wouldn't sell newspapers.

 

 

[facthunter]

You're probably right. You very rarely have a speed restriction on climb, eccept the usual 250 below 10,000 ' Till the flaps are fully retracted you are pretty speed restricted. With these departures , there is probably an assumption that everyone is pretty much doing the "normal" thing, so there needs to be back-up monitoring. Nev

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

...With these departures , there is probably an assumption that everyone is pretty much doing the "normal" thing, so there needs to be back-up monitoring. Nev

That was exactly what happened. The controllers in both situations expected that the two aircraft would have similar performance, however that was not the case. Further, Melbourne copied Sydney's "Auto-release" procedures, but omitted the requirement for a defined climb speed and for pilots to notify the controller if they could not comply. Strangely, the risk assessment of the new procedure failed to highlight the omission.

Looks as if one of the resultant changes will now probably be in a change to AIP for jet aircraft.

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

STAB's response to the press: http://www.atsb.gov.au/newsroom/news-items/australian-aviation-has-high-safety-standards.aspx