RAA Aus resignations

[turboplanner]

The last few posts bear out my views. People are saying the wrong thing is being done, but won't state what. I am not saying that they are acting incorrectly, but before i can agree to what they are calling for I want to know the facts. If they are facts, bringing them out into the open should not make them legally liable.

I actually gave you some good advice on where you can get facts a few posts back.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I was just clarifying what's wrong with the RAA

Sorry FT you never clarify anything. You never have previously and I doubt you ever will. In fact I would go so far as to say that you bring the whole tone of this thread down. You are the boy who cried wolf, without any backing material and your continuing wild assed accusations that to all intent and purposes look like "Here comes another one, just like the other one......" damage the credibility of the rest of the thread content!!

 

So, in order try and change this to a more positive approach, Have you rung and spoken with any of the board members? what did they say?

 

Andy

 

 

[ave8rr]

This appears to be going around and around and getting NO where.

 

Rather than have 10,000 members ring their board (ex) board members wouldn't it be easier to have those board members who have resigned (if they have as nothing is on the webb site that I can see) post what they know here then a discussion can be had on those facts instead of trying to get to the bottom of the problem when we don't know what the problem in fact is.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

This appears to be going around and around and getting NO where.Rather than have 10,000 members ring their board (ex) board members wouldn't it be easier to have those board members who have resigned (if they have as nothing is on the webb site that I can see) post what they know here then a discussion can be had on those facts instead of trying to get to the bottom of the problem when we don't know what the problem in fact is.

Actually the resignation of the board members is on the website in a press release by the president. It can be found here:- http://www.raa.asn.au/2012/05/board-resignations/

 

You are right, I could pass on what I was told but then its second hand and I was told firsthand that there would in the near future be a first hand release of info.

 

You infer that 10,000 members ringing their board member is bad....I guess it would be if all 10,000 actually rang, but if we have 10,000 members and only a few hundred, if that, that actually translate the interest into an actual vote...then I dont see that we are at any risk of causing 10,000 phone calls to occur anytime soon realistically.

 

The benefit of ringing is that you have an opportunity of hearing first hand and can question until you are comfortable you understand the issues.

 

Further, if ringing becomes a problem to the current board members and ex board members then I guess they'll create an email to distribute, or a posting which like the phone call will be first hand and much better and informing than the he said that she said....

 

Andy

 

 

[facthunter]

And don't wait till you have dulled your intellect with a few beers like some used to do with me (in another organisation). You go to a lot of trouble to explain things then realise the person is Pi88ed!. Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Don't get sad Andy, please feel free to advise me where I have been misleading, my only intention is too keep the casual reader informed of where the RAA is failing the membership. I'm not contacting the RAA, if the board choose not to notify the members about changes to the RAA, I'll assume we don't need to know.

 

 

[David Isaac]

........I'm not contacting the RAA, if the board choose not to notify the members about changes to the RAA, I'll assume we don't need to know.

Oh dear, that is sad FT, it is that kind of apathy that feeds the issues we have. No one cares enough about our organisation to get off their assess and protect the freedoms that hard workers before them created.

So what would happen if RA Aus collapses and you cannot fly your Tornado FT? Would you get off your ass then and do something about it?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

No one is indispensable. If the RAA collapsed tomorrow, the next day a new better organisation would fill the void. This whole idea that the RAA is the only thing keeping people flying is totally bogus.

 

 

[Tomo]

No one is indispensable. If the RAA collapsed tomorrow, the next day a new better organisation would fill the void. This whole idea that the RAA is the only thing keeping people flying is totally bogus.

FT might be a little different how he says things, but it does make you think doesn't it...

 

 

[facthunter]

I am sure it is the cryptic way he expresses himself.

 

 

[Tex]

This is like a jigsaw puzzle, rumour here, hearsay there,fact maybe there.I think the picture is starting to show. keepworking on it guys and gals

Kind of like a game of cluedo or something. As the Joker says... riddle me this... OK I'll play.

 

We have two (maybe more) board members who have resigned. Don Ramsey (treasurer) and Bill Cain.

 

We have two names that keep popping up here in the negative sense. The CEO Steve Tizzard and the President Steve Runcimen.

 

Someone stuffed up aircraft registration (certification?) and got in big trouble with CASA (This has yet to be resolved by the looks?)

 

Now there are also insurance issues? The RAA was/is not insured? Or the board was/is not insured?

 

A veil of secrecy pervades it all.... or 'trouble' if anyone speaks out: Individual board members obviously feel threatened.

 

Beyond all the discussion on RAA governance generally, these are the pertinent points I can discern from this thread relating to the current turmoil.

 

An educated guess then: The CEO and/or the President in combination and/or with others on the board are failing to take advice (or accept responsibility) from other board members regarding the registration/certification and insurance issues and the 'recalcitrant' board members feel threatened somehow (one assumes legal action) if they speak out: secrecy agreements? It would appear the RAA and/or the board were/are not insured for the issues that have arisen so any cost of legal action may have to be born by individuals - ergo: board members would rather resign than be held liable for what is going on or eventuates, especially if they have no control or input.

 

No doubt any response will be "Maybe."

 

 

 

[fly_tornado]

FWIW I have a bad left wrist, courtesy of a wayward Commodore, typing hurts so I avoid it as often as possible. As far as the RAA goes, had someone had warned me that the RAA was primarily a dumping ground for washed out GA pilots I would have never gotten involved. Right now if the RAA fell over, its not a problem for me. I am really interested in flying/touring in the US, its got such fantastic mountains and its such an oddball country. I would rather save my money for flying there.I suppose I could ship my Tornados back to the US!

 

I am confident the RAA won't fail, it will stagger on from one missed opportunity to the next, the way it always does.

 

 

[ahlocks]

The topic is important, the personality clashes aren't and have been removed.

 

 

[winsor68]

This post was edited as it referred to deleted comments. However Windsor your sentiments re those posts are agreed with.

 

 

[robinsm]

With all the toing and froing, we still don't know what happened, why it happened or how it happened. I am amazed that something about which we have so little information has generated so much comment. How about some facts people. Hearsay and innuendo do nothing to advance the cause of recreational flyers anywhere. At the moment Raa-Aus is our certifying body. Lets get some facts and debate it with all the information at hand. We don't need to make stuff up and infer "facts" just for arguments sake. This does nothing to advance the cause and makes us look like a bunch of reactionary d...k heads.

 

 

[facthunter]

IF there are legal issues, why would you expect people to be going public at this point.. Your curiosity will be satisfied eventually, Things always come out. The modern world is a complex one . Lawyers make more money that way. Lest I offend some Lawyers here, I would say that if it was simple and easy to understand, they wouldn't be needed to interpret and argue the points of it. Nev.

 

 

[robinsm]

Lawyers always need to argue and interpret, its how they make their money. Give them a scone recipe and its open to negotiation and interpretation. You may wind up with a 5 tier wedding cake.

 

 

[facthunter]

I thought they would turn it into s "dough"nut. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

With all the toing and froing, we still don't know what happened, why it happened or how it happened. I am amazed that something about which we have so little information has generated so much comment. How about some facts people. Hearsay and innuendo do nothing to advance the cause of recreational flyers anywhere. At the moment Raa-Aus is our certifying body. Lets get some facts and debate it with all the information at hand. We don't need to make stuff up and infer "facts" just for arguments sake. This does nothing to advance the cause and makes us look like a bunch of reactionary d...k heads.

You can get a simple non-public answer to your concerns by phoning your local representative. This is the sort of thing he was elected for.

 

 

[Admin]

Lawyers always need to argue and interpret, its how they make their money. Give them a scone recipe and its open to negotiation and interpretation. You may wind up with a 5 tier wedding cake.

And send you the bill for photocopying it a zillion times...sorry but couldn't resist

 

 

[turboplanner]

Plus charge you $300.00 for taking the phone call where you asked why the bill was so high.

 

Come to think of it, it's quite possible Darky now has a Being 707 parked outside the Condo like John Travolta.

 

 

[coljones]

Lawyers always need to argue and interpret, its how they make their money. Give them a scone recipe and its open to negotiation and interpretation. You may wind up with a 5 tier wedding cake.

You pay for a 5 tier wedding cake but get a dry biscuit!!

 

 

[facthunter]

Is Darky a Scientologist?.. IF she flys a B707 she might be able to convert that scone into a dutch "roll" Nev

 

 

[storchy neil]

And send you the bill for photocopying it a zillion times...sorry but couldn't resist

lawyers 54000.00 and i aint in court yet ian should have returned my aircraft to the place of repair and burnt it in his hangar ( not alowed to name him ) and called the kiala shepparton fire brigade neil

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Personal opinion follows:-

 

Most feel they need a lawyer due something in their life which involves extreme emotions. Yet I was taught at Uni that "break glass and deply lawyer" was something that needed to be done as a result of a business case with the rationale that a business case is a document containing facts and documented risk and generally no emotion.

 

The other thing with a business case is that to create one you generally have to undertand where you are going and what it will cost, often when emotions are involved those things arent known when the journey commences.

 

When it comes to civil litigation you cant get blood from a stone and as such those in the community that are most free to say what they want and do what they want are those that have $0 worth of Assets and are happy to remain in that place. Providing they stay on the right side of the criminal law line then fell free to feel free..... beyond reaonable doubt is a much harder test in the criminal courts than on balance of probabilities in civil cases so the Line I talked about is not in the same place for civil cases and can be trampled at will by those that own nothing.......

 

Andy