RAA Aus resignations

[damkia]

damkia, what are we suggesting? Don't "stack" meetings, please, and what has"toxic" got to do with it. Has the toilet over run?We are not in the parliament now where such inappropriate terms have common usage. Don't go there. Nev

The indications from Ian were pretty pointed in as much as SOMETHING needs to happen to stop good people leaving because of a disfuctional management (the common business definition of a "toxic" workplace).

 

As far as "stacking" meetings, if asking people to take a direct interest, utilising the procedures available to bring about a resolution to the issues then there is no problem. True (union) stacking is where you get your mates to JOIN the union, then vote, with the intention of influencing an outcome. I am not suggesting that at all - I am simply saying to utilise the existing membership if the members are not happy with the current management.

 

 

[facthunter]

That's fine damkia. I suppose my thrust is to be somewhat wary of how we appear to do things. I believe "softly softly catchee monkey".

 

I don't like secrecy and intrigue. We upset each other when we do it the wrong way. I don't really know what the right way is. I wish nothing was wrong. Perhaps we wait, but we can't do this sort of thing all the time. I for one have had enough of it. Is all aviation just one big sea of unhappiness unless you just go for a little fly and don't think too much about it. If that's all there is, why would sensible people waste their time?. Life is too short Nev

 

 

[damkia]

That's fine damkia. I suppose my thrust is to be somewhat wary of how we appear to do things. I believe "softly softly catchee monkey".I don't like secrecy and intrigue. We upset each other when we do it the wrong way. I don't really know what the right way is. I wish nothing was wrong. Perhaps we wait, but we can't do this sort of thing all the time. I for one have had enough of it. Is all aviation just one big sea of unhappiness unless you just go for a little fly and don't think too much about it. If that's all there is, why would sensible people waste their time?. Life is too short Nev

The "right" way is a fair and open re-election of RA-Aus management and board after going through due process. Having referenced everything back to the rights of the members and board in the Constitution, there should be no basis for a consipricy theories.

 

It is the dispute resolution process in action.

 

This is all I was trying to demonstrate.

 

 

[dodo]

The "right" way is a fair and open re-election of RA-Aus management and board after going through due process. Having referenced everything back to the rights of the members and board in the Constitution, there should be no basis for a consipricy theories.This is all I was trying to demonstrate.

I don't think another election is the solution. I think RA-AUS need to seriously consider how to deliver both to CASA (as RA-AUS are responsible to CASA for regulating us), and to deliver as representatives of the membership.

 

At the moment, I think RA-AUS does well in terms of regulating us, but not so well in representing us, especially in the most obvious responsibility to the membership - keeping the membership informed.

 

I would very much like to hear from the board members who resigned (if they have!) as to why. They were elected on their stated intentions to do the job. The explanation doesn't have to be in any particular detail, but it needs to inform electors why they have changed their intentions since they stood for election.

 

Jim

 

 

[dazza 38]

There is obviously a common deminator, why people with all great intents and purposes have, over the years, left. Could generally be way things are run.Could also be a individual I guess. I dont know the reasons, but maybe a major change is in order.We cant keep having by elections.Well we can, but it costs money.The two guys that have resigned are well respected and would have given it alot of thought before resigning.They would not have done it lightly.

 

 

[facthunter]

And it's not very long is it, since the last election. These people are not underlings. They are the executive. They all made election promises to us. There were other candidates on offer in most if not all cases. You can't have top level change overs too rapidly as you must have continuity. Nor can you blame any of the individuals who used to be there. IF there is such a problem that 3 people have to resign it IS serous enough for it to come out., there is no doubt about that.

 

At this time we could do with more FACTS. Nev

 

 

[Admin]

I have been told by phone today that there is more happening over the next 2 weeks so I guess we will have to "watch this space"...and yes, it seems to me by what I have heard from several sources that there is a common denominator but I don't have tangible proof of that which I can give you, only what the different sources have told me...strange that they have all said the same thing which to me, verifies that there is a common denominator.

 

 

[facthunter]

IF all we can do is speculate at this stage, till we know more details, could I suggest the dangers of speculation are considerable and unedifying on occasions. To protect the innocent etc , that this thread be locked until such time as we have reason to process extra necesary FACTS. When this happens I am sure our collective wisdom will be able to deal with it . Nev

 

 

[Bandit12]

While I love a scandal as much as the average guy, I do think that even talking about it vaguely is a little pointless until facts are revealed. Ian has stated that he has some, but has decided that it isn't time yet to release them. Perhaps some aren't his facts to release, and would be better coming from the people involved. In any case, most things come out in the wash, so if we hang in there, I'm sure details will be forthcoming.

 

As an aside, if I ever needed a mediator, I'd love to call on Facthunter - he regularly offers well thought and calm words

 

 

[facthunter]

Thank you Bandit. I have had training in it and have had to represent people at investigations over the years. You are very kind. Nev

 

 

[Yenn]

Once again we are going down the path of rumour and recrimination.

 

If anyone has info about what is being done wrong, they should share it. Not just make innuendos and start rumours. I will not take otice of innuendoes, unless they are backed up with facts. Why do we have to have so much back biting in this organisation?

 

I want to know what is wrong and why, not listen to people being smeared.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Some people have alot of facts.Whether they are willing to get themselves in the $hit on a public forum, that is another story.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Rigorous Transparent

 

This is not what the RAA is

 

 

[nong]

Interesting thread.

 

In thinking, I have never been approached by a potential student wanting to join RAAus. Ever.

 

I have however, been approached by lots of individuals wishing to learn to fly.

 

At an early stage I tell them that they have to join RAAus, and so they do.

 

Of course it seems weird to them that they have to sign up for "membership" of what is, it seems, merely a contracted administrator. Then I give them a little history about how this historical anomaly came about and how it made sense in earlier times.

 

I don't think most new "forced" members give a damn about the organisation. This might help explain the general disinterest in voting.

 

I also note that the term "recreational" is very limiting to many students. Why should they be coersed into pretending to have a recreational interest when they clearly wish to use a small aircraft for business related purposes? In saying this, I in no way attack the legitimacy of recreational flying and note that in fact, pilots often fly for business one day and recreation the next.

 

I too don't know what's going on so it might be fun to speculate!

 

Lets see... RAAus staff "resign" and switch to CASA. CASA staff "retire" and move to RAAus. Certain paid staff have tended to become more dictatorial toward "members" in my recent experience. There isn't a lot remaining of the old "lets see if we can sort this out" attitude. CASA has COLONISED RAAus...., I speculate!

 

We might be near to an END GAME.

 

Lets see... GFA, SAAA home-builts and AWAL administered aircraft are all registered VH-.

 

Might it not be easy to make available VH- regos to all RAAus aircraft and announce a phase-out of the RAAus register.

 

To avoid legal rejigging, CASA could form an in house RAAO to supplant RAAus. The new RAAO would use (initially) a clone of the existing RAAus Ops Manual. It could work well as it would keep us all in business under the same rule set (initially).

 

It may suit CASA as it would have full control (without negotiation) of its domain once again.

 

It might also suit the majority of RAAus members, most of whom never wished to be members in the first place.

 

People are used to paying fees to government departments such as NSW Roads and Maritime Services. So fees for service could replace fees for membership. As a government business unit the new RAAO could even maintain the existing insurance scheme but the magazine would go, to be replaced by Flight Safety.

 

As for those who want to play politics...they can join their local Aero Club!

 

Then again. If CASA has already colonised RAAus, might not the end game already be over?!

 

 

[ave8rr]

Nong, you have just posted what I have been thinking for along time. This is how things are run in countries like UK, NZ, Canada etc as far as I understand it.

 

Cheers

 

 

[Admin]

Sounds like you might be on to something there Nong...the freedoms of recreational aviators remain in tact with the ops manual and maintenance etc, more affordable flying in terms of aircraft registration and membership costs

 

 

[damkia]

Related also to the Rec PL that CASA are proposing?

 

Bigger picture potentials or comments:

 

CASA oversees all aviation and training.

 

Ability to be taught on more established trainers (C150/C152, Tomohawk,s etc) for RAA type aicraft and from RAA trainers to simple GA aircraft with only a nominal (3-5hrs) model endorsement.

 

CASA sick of the infighting in RAA, leading to the "takeover"?

 

Relatively high number of "incidents" tarnishing the reputation of CASA (although in actuality it is RA-Aus that is the issue)

 

Common sense prevails that if we are all sharing the same airspace, then we should be governed by one body.

 

CASA needing RAA pilots as "feedstock" to step up to GA, both financially and membership participation.

 

 

[IanR]

Interesting reading this - I am not an RAA member and am no further enlightened as to what the problem is - seems to me that lots of discussions about an undefined issue actually is helping in the potential demise. Certainly doesn't make it appealing to join !!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

the main issue for the RAA is no checks and balances, leads to a lot of issues.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

I want my original ANO95-10 back. I have had a gutfull of this crap.

 

 

[damkia]

http://www.casa.gov.au/scripts/nc.dll?WCMS:STANDARD::pc=PC_93439

 

Interesting reading in as much as there is no reason that a second RAAO representative group of RAA pilots could not be created. It would not be easy, but it could be done.

 

the main issue for the RAA is no checks and balances, leads to a lot of issues.

There is also a potential if this is true for a whistleblower to give examples to CASA of what is going wrong in RA-Aus, forcing a top down shake-up of RA-Aus.

 

I am not aiming this at anyone, simply putting it forward as a possible and allowable action.

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I want my original ANO95-10 back. I have had a gutfull of this crap.

I'm with you Ozzie.

 

 

[damkia]

and there lies a real can of worms, we then end up with parallel organizations with an array of axes to grind and in the end the people that suffer are the ones who simply want to fly. I guess we'll see in the coming weeks as all these "players" show there hands !Rather than try to destroy by innuendo and gossip the organization that has done so much for us wouldn't it make sense to band together and try to fix whats wrong, cause anything else will not be good for ultralight pilots especially if administration goes back to CASA ,really, does anyone think that being directly under the DIRECT watchful eye of an organization that has the reputation of CASA is going to be good for RA pilots!

See post #45

 

being directly under the DIRECT watchful eye of an organization that has the reputation of CASA is going to be good for RA pilots

It's probably already happening.

 

Is the reputation of RA-Aus that much better? There are some here who seem to have knowledge to the contrary.

 

There are already two RAAO operating side by side in the same airspace (RA-Aus and HGFA). One seems to work a bit better than the other...

 

 

[flyerme]

Sorry don't understand,"flying for business" don't you need a comercial pilot licence for that? this is ment to be RECREATIONAL, you know..FUN.!!!!!!!.stick your political Bureaucracy , up ya.......I just wanna fly... and amalgamate with CASA..No thanks,I don't like dictation,.....thats where itll end up,can't see CASA sticking with our regs..

 

 

[damkia]

Sorry don't understand,"flying for business" don't you need a comercial pilot licence for that? this is ment to be RECREATIONAL, you know..FUN.!!!!!!!.stick your political Bureaucracy , up ya.......I just wanna fly... and amalgamate with CASA..No thanks,I don't like dictation,.....thats where itll end up,can't see CASA sticking with our regs..

"Flying for business" may simply be getting yourself to work (ie what I am looking to do inthe next year or so, flyin/fly out of Gold Coast to central Qld area - 2-2.5 hr flight vs 9 hr drive.

 

CASA actually formed our regs under the RAAO provisions. It is RA-Aus that operate under what CASA have given us already, so I feel that your thinking may be "ass-about". In effect we are already under the CASA regs.