Tail Draggers and landing

[facthunter]

It's probably a Spitfire with a Griffon engine in it. Nev

 

 

[Louis Moore]

Or wheel it once and leave the slight q tipped prop on it to give the exact amount of ground clearance you need

 

 

[David Isaac]

Gotta watch those Griffons don't you? ... don't they rotate the opposite direction to the Merlin? I think that is what nearly killed the old bloke in NZ (cant remember his name Sir ...somebody) wasn't it, he owns one and stacked it big time?

 

 

[facthunter]

He wasn't Sir Tain. Nev

 

 

[kiwicrusader]

Sir Tim Wallis. Founder of the Alpine Fighter Collection based in Wanaka NZ.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Gotta watch those Griffons don't you? ... don't they rotate the opposite direction to the Merlin? I think that is what nearly killed the old bloke in NZ (cant remember his name Sir ...somebody) wasn't it, he owns one and stacked it big time?

Some models were fitted with counter rotating props.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Sir Tim Wallis. Founder of the Alpine Fighter Collection based in Wanaka NZ.

That's the fella

 

 

[ayavner]

*sigh*... ok, what's a "wheeler"?

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

*sigh*... ok, what's a "wheeler"?

Ya kidding aren't you?

 

 

[facthunter]

In a T/W plane where you fly near the ground and the wheels touch without you significantly holding it off. Nev

 

 

[ayavner]

Ya kidding aren't you?

Of course I am! Isn't that something that naturally comes up in one's first 9 hours of nosewheel instruction? :-P

 

 

[facthunter]

The big difference is the placement of the mainwheels. One is in front of the centre of gravity. Like chalk and cheese. Nev

 

 

[Bryon]

He wasn't Sir Tain. Nev

I noticed it Nev. Very clever

 

 

[dutchroll]

Mate .. problem solved ... stick longer legs on it or trim the prop ...

Actually, it's funny you should say that........

 

With the upgraded engine some people are now getting (including myself), they had to get a bigger prop (to take the additional power). And with the bigger prop, they had to lengthen the undercarriage legs (due ground clearance). And with the longer legs, they had to add a step to get on the wing and into the cockpit. But the end result is that it can still be a very expensive misjudgement to attempt a wheeler landing, or to lift the tail on takeoff!

 

*sigh*... ok, what's a "wheeler"?

In a tailwheel aircraft:

 

"3 pointer" - mains and tailwheel touchdown all at the same time (thus high nose attitude). Generally considered the "purist" approach to landing a taildragger, but whether it's an appropriate technique does sometimes depend on the plane.

 

"wheeler" - mains touchdown, tail still in air (thus lower nose attitude). The tail is "gently" lowered as speed reduces.

 

 

[flindersflyer]

Shane is right Pud, Eyes and throttle closed over the fence, then wait for the bang, at which time you open eyes again !....No really.........each plane lands a little different, but theyre all similiar if that makes any sense. For instance my LW with 2-stage flaps will be different to land than a standard LW, with no flaps.

 

My landing technique goes something like this.............I was taught many years ago that a good approach leads to a good landing, and a bad approach leads to a bad one !...........so, 1/2 a K out I'm looking for the right airspeed for over the fence, and generally getting slowed down and stable, with one stage of flaps out. I like to land within the first third of the runway, and don't mind sticking it on the numbers if possible. On the other hand I will be seen touching down half way down the runway, if circut traffic dictates, for a quick runway vacate. Obviosly runway length is a factor to be considered on planning touch down point.

 

I always make a note on final if I am ready, or able, to do a go around if necessary. (fuel, strip length, powerlines etc) or wether it's a no-go. (lack of fuel, powerlines, wind, short strip, etc). We have a Wallaby problem at home base so one must be ready. Often you may need to make an unplanned and immediate go-around decision due to an unplanned event. That is not the time to be all over the cockpit checking if all is good, rather it's time for immediate action, which is why I like to be prepared beforehand both physically, and mentally.

 

So my aim point is just beyond the numbers. Just before crossing the fence or even a bit before, the throttle comes back to idle. I'm generally carrying 45-50 Kts at this stage. Then level the aircraft about 2 ft above the runway and get into a 'slow-down further' or 'bleed off the airspeed', mode. This is already happening because the throttle is at idle. I'm also slightly raising the nose when I can, as the big wing on the Lightwing make the perfect airbrake, and very effectivly slows the aircraft just before touchdown.

 

So basically as she decelerates about a foot above the runway, the stick keeps coming back, back, back, and is pretty much against the stop as the wheels touch, generally in a three-pointer, as the tail has dropped because of the low airspeed and the back application of stick.

 

At this minimal airspeed, and with stick all the way back, she has no tendency to bounce at all, and it's all over. The Lightwing also tracks pretty straight so little rudder is required to keep on runway center. I get the flaps off as soon after touchdown as I can, to assist any braking reqd.

 

If I decide on a full flap landing, I'll pull them on about a 1/4 k from the fence which drops the nose a bit and gives your approach angle, which is gently adjusted with light and smooth power applications. The flare with full flaps is more gentle, and the hold off much shorter, and the touch down may be softened if required with slight application of power. Same story, with stick all the way back on touch down, but watch for high sink right at the end with full flaps and low airspeed, which is where the power may be required to arrest any sink.

 

If I decide to do a wheeler it's decided after the initial round-out above the runway, and requires gentle foward stick application instead of gentle back-stick. And I do mean gentle !...just holding the aircraft in a level attitude until the mains roll instead of pulling back-stick to slow the aircraft is the way to go. You can get a bounce off a wheeler but it's usually not much if your gentle, however if it's a good bounce (you wern't gentle!) you'll have to work it a bit more, or go-around.

 

If you've got a cross wind the LW likes a wing down, and the wheeler can be done either with touching on one main only in level attitude, or two pointer with one main and tailwheel......................Hope some of this helps..................................In the wise words of the late Bill Starke.."Flying ?....you do whatever you have to at the time !! ".................................................................Maj......

Thanks for the info Maj. and others. I've now got about 40 wheeler landings under my belt, most of which have been done in worse than good conditions, mostly strong X winds and although I now feel confident with them I'm still not happy. So it's just practice. The one and only 3 pointer was a greaser. It was so good, I wasn't really aware we had made contact with the ground. My instructor told me. Last time I went up the wheelers were coming nicely, mind you the X wind was only slight. So maybe I'm getting the hang of it. Thanks to all for your responses. This is a great way to gain a bit of knowledge from a wide spectrum.

 

 

[flindersflyer]

I noticed it Nev. Very clever

I saw it too.

 

 

[djpacro]

For info, some interesting articles on this topic at http://tailwheelersjournal.com/

 

 

[facthunter]

Pretty sophisticated approach to the art of flying that would extract the full potential of the aircraft and pilot. Some selected articles may suit posting and discussion/explanation here. Some might say "it is making too much of something that is simple" (I don't), but we may see . Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Well in many aircraft it is very simple, and no drama at all. I wouldn't say I'm exactly sweating every time I land a Drifter or Lightwing for instance.

 

However it does have a lot to do with the aircraft type, and some out there are ready and willing to make a fool of you if you let them. Some others are out to really make a fool of you if you relax too much.

 

Also of course it has a lot to do with the pilots' experience, and ability in type.

 

It is the latter that has given the joys of taildragging a negative name with some..

 

A wise old taildragger ag-pilot once told me, "never let that nose get more than ten degrees off from where you want to go !!".............................Maj...

 

 

[Louis Moore]

In a T/W plane where you fly near the ground and the wheels touch without you significantly holding it off. Nev

Come on Nev don't give false info. A Wheeler is where you fly close to the ground, touch mains first and then bounce 50 ft back into the air 5 times over!

 

 

[Tomo]

Come on Nev don't give false info. A Wheeler is where you fly close to the ground, touch mains first and then bounce 50 ft back into the air 5 times over!

No, no, they're called touch-n-go's!

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Tomo, I've ordered a new wing-suit and many cardboard boxes for you....when will you be ready ???............................................................

 

 

[Guernsey]

How many of you do high speed long taxiing with the tail up?

I used to do it regularly in the L4 Piper Cub particularly when I wanted to clear the runway quickly.

 

Visibility forward was none existant as I had to fly from the back seat and didn't enjoy snaking down the runway.

 

Alan.

 

 

[dutchroll]

Come on Nev don't give false info. A Wheeler is where you fly close to the ground, touch mains first and then bounce 50 ft back into the air 5 times over!

On my taildragger, a bounce is the aeroplane telling you that it has rejected the landing due to failing quality-control standards, and asking you to resubmit. It will normally do so with great gusto so you're not left in any doubt!

 

 

[Tomo]

Tomo, I've ordered a new wing-suit and many cardboard boxes for you....when will you be ready ???............................................................

Haha, in your dreams....