Height for flare?

[Jenkin. J. Steed.]

Hi all, maybe someone out there has some advice that will be helpful to all of us on L plates. When down over the piano keys, I find it difficult to judge exactly when to pull back for that final flare. It is not a big problem for me. I have only had one bounce with a power on go around out of 30 or so landings. But obviously I don't want another one. I am looking Down the runway and only occasionally glancing at airspeed etc. Peripheral vision out to the side is giving me a rough idea, but sometimes I flare too early and seems to take for ever to get it down those last couple of feet, other times it is too late and land a little hard. My strip doesn't have a lot of clues such as trees out to the side to give you that indication, " yeah I'm below X height now, time to flare." and even if I did use that method when I go to another strip the "clues" there are going to be different. My instructor does a fantastic job. But sometimes, someone has a different way of putting things, then you go "yeah that makes sense."

 

Any advice appreciated.

 

 

[ayavner]

Hi JJS - I am in the same boat as you, haven't really been able to nail it down to a particular height as such (other than the cues you already mentioned), but my instructor has been teaching me to feel for the various degrees of "sink", and adjust accordingly. To me there is a big "sink" after you first level off from the approach, then a number of ever-decreasing ones as you get closer to the ground, each requiring a further amount of back pressure until the stick is pretty far back and you just kinda "plop" down.

 

Take it for what its worth from a fellow L-plater :) and welcome to the forum - these guys and gals are great advisors and encouragers.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Don't worry too much about it, you are learning to do a lot of things at the same time and it seems to take forever. Sometimes in the flare it's just a matter of patience.

 

 

[pudestcon]

jjs, join the club :)

 

Just get your instructor to demonstrate a few more times, with you looking out as you would if you were on the controls. What you want here is to get the picture in your head of what the flare looks and feels like, then repetition will build the correct picture and feel as you get a few correct, then a few more, then a few more. You will get it sooner or later - if you are like me, it will be later! No matter though because along they way to being an expert at flaring, you will become very, very good at the other aspects as well. Enjoy the journey.

 

Pud

 

 

[Guest davidh10]

Like the others have said, just keep practising and you will gain the sight view and muscle memory required. My CFI used to say "Landing isn't a formula. Every landing is different." To be more precise, there isn't a technical answer to your question. It's a skill.

 

 

[Camel]

As an offer of help, I would say to you, approach the field and try keep the approach without round out until approximately 15 to 20 feet off he ground or in rough terms when the runway fills the windscreen, when you have rounded out slowly bring power off to let you down and from this point look to end of runway as the picture in front of you ( the runway and horizon ) get flatter slowly ease back on stick but to not allow the nose to rise above the end of runway and then continue not to let it land and eventually it will lightly touch the ground, as the plane slows during flare the nose will start to drop and you need to apply more back pressure to hold off.

 

The most important part is to look ahead and if you nose rises above the end of the runway it is too high as the planes slows it sinks you try to get more lift by back pressure and so on until it touches and then keep hold, don't let go until it slows down.

 

Hope this helps, if it doesn't keep listening to your instructor.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

but sometimes I flare too early and seems to take for ever to get it down those last couple of feet, other times it is too late and land a little hard

And so it will go for the rest of your flying days! You do good landings and you do bad. All I can suggest is practice, practice, practice, and if you find the secret, please let me know!

 

[rgmwa]

Jenkin, if you've only had one bounce bad enough to go around out of 30 landings, I'd say you're doing well. I've done more than a few where I've been thankful for rugged landing gear, and hoped no one was watching as I arrived at a number of different locations along the runway on the one approach. I like to get my money's worth. Anyway, the up-side of learning how to land is that you eventually get pretty good at recovering bad ones.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[fly_tornado]

remember landing is 1% of flying and 39% of accidents

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Jenks, it's like HH and rgmwa said. If you've only done one bounce you must be doing OK. Even the very experienced occasionally stuff up a landing... at least that's been my excuse! Keep practising and each time aim to improve on the previous one. Landing is half the fun of flying.

 

It may not assist you to remember that the quality of the landing is inversely proportional to the size of the audience.

 

 

[Ultralights]

the trick is, over the piano keys, one last look at airspeed, check its ok, if so, move your eyes to the thurthest point past the end of the runway! and keep them there, it helps with overcorrecting, help just drift and height, the key is to not take your eyes off the thurthest point at the end of the runway. don't look at the end of the runway itself, look past it, to the perimeter fence, trees or whatever is up that end of the airfield.

 

 

[68volksy]

For me it was a matter of slowing things down. Had great landings when I started then didn't fly for 16 months and when I came back it was all over the place. My instructor managed to break down my circuit/approach/flare/touchdown and found a few funny habits I seemed to have picked up. Main issue was that for some reason i'd just pull the power entirely when I was over the fence and then try to catch the plane purely with back pressure. It meant that I had a very limited window in which to catch the plane at the perfect height and put it down gently.

 

My instructor basically took me back to square one of the landing lessons and had me leave a little power on and fly along the strip. Then when the plane had settled it was simply a matter of easing the power off and catching it each time with back pressure on the controls. The tiniest little bit of power made a huge difference to how gradually the aircraft would settle onto the runway.

 

I think I used to have this mentality of "i'm over the piano keys, time to land" which was screwing me up. Maybe you could try to break it down into steps and try to flare with a little bit of power on like i'm now doing? All the runway is there to use so don't be afraid to waffle half way down it with power on before touch down (so long as you have enough left of course) a few times to get a proper feel for how the aircraft works. Once you've established a process that works for you and is gentle enough for you to stay ahead of then you can work at moving all parts of the process further back towards the keys. For me I also moved my turn onto finals back a little and made my circuit wider so that everything fitted into the process without me feeling rushed at any point.

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

...leave a little power on and fly along the strip.... I think I used to have this mentality of "i'm over the piano keys, time to land" which was screwing me up.

My thoughts exactly - don't be in a rush to land, just fly along a bit whilst looking a good way off ahead (says he who often tends to land like a Wildebeest). I also enjoy doing glide approaches with no power but only in fairly calm conditions of course.

 

After a couple of hundred circuits I reckon you'll have it pretty sweet Jenkin, then start on taildraggers.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Surely power on/off depends on the type you are flying? Speed control is very important too, to fast and you'll float forever, not enough and you might need a trip to the Chiropractor. For crosswinds don't be afraid to give it a bootfull of rudder, full deflection if that's what it takes!

 

Whatever you do don't get in to the habit of of landing due to the curvature of the Earth! (ie: leaving power on and waiting for the Earth to rise up beneath thee...)

 

 

[facthunter]

This is a totally variable thing. It depends very much on the plane and whether you are a bit fast, right on, speed or slow.' Pilots have personal preference as to whether to flare fairly high and ( obviously) gradually in that case.

 

You have a couple of things to do. The first is to arrest your sink rate and arrive at a very low height with it close to zero and secondly, to wash off the excess speed , particularly if you are 3 pointing a T/W, A/C

 

I have always preferred NOT to hold off high as you are vulnerable up there. A lower flare has to be more deliberate as the margin for error is less, but if you hold off high and get slow you are in trouble as it can stall and drop a wing.

 

Some aircraft change trim when the power is removed so it may drop the nose and you will do a firm landing if you don't compensate with backstick

 

You have to adjust your technique to compensate for the airspeed you have. Now you can't be watching ths ASI all the time, so I try to maintain the attitude and power ( if you have some on) constant from a STABILISED approach at 300' say, where I check the ASI. Be aware of your sink . If it appears to be increasing you might put a bit of extra power on, but be ready to pull it back off once your sink is arrested or you will just get faster.

 

I've only brought up a couple of points here, but if they make sense to you, think about them. If they don't , stick to what your instructor tells you, because the last thing you want is confusion at an early stage. Nev

 

 

[propfarmer]

I am a learner and I had trouble with judging height as well. I told my instructor and he suggested a couple of circuits without touching down. Just flying from the point of flare to the point of take off and staying as low and level as I could made a world of difference. It helped me get my mind around where i needed to be. It gave me time to have a look around and get comfortable with the height without the added pressure of everything else you need to manage before touchdown. Then..... many weeks later and after many circuits it just 'sort of' clicked and now I don't see it as "that frightening time between flying and driving!!" As HH said, "practice, practice practice"

 

 

[Jenkin. J. Steed.]

Hi JJS - I am in the same boat as you, haven't really been able to nail it down to a particular height as such (other than the cues you already mentioned), but my instructor has been teaching me to feel for the various degrees of "sink", and adjust accordingly. To me there is a big "sink" after you first level off from the approach, then a number of ever-decreasing ones as you get closer to the ground, each requiring a further amount of back pressure until the stick is pretty far back and you just kinda "plop" down.Take it for what its worth from a fellow L-plater :) and welcome to the forum - these guys and gals are great advisors and encouragers.

[Jenkin. J. Steed.]

Thanks to all of you for your prompt, detailed and helpful replies. The suggestions here have given me a few "approaches" to consider. Above all it is nice to know I'm not alone. I will keep plugging away and implement what I can. I know it will all come together one day, but as someone far wiser than me said. "Experience is something you get 5 minutes after you need it."

 

Cheers.

 

 

[Compulsion]

My Instructor has put me on to a few videos on YouTube of landings. I have watched them over and over to attempt to get the picture right.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Thanks to all of you for your prompt, detailed and helpful replies. The suggestions here have given me a few "approaches" to consider. Above all it is nice to know I'm not alone. I will keep plugging away and implement what I can. I know it will all come together one day, but as someone far wiser than me said. "Experience is something you get 5 minutes after you need it."Cheers.

Experience is great. It allows you to recognise the same mistake when you make it again!

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Tomo]

It's what I call, "finding the ground"

 

We all went through it, and still do from time to time! Every time I fly a different aircraft you have to fiddle and finesse around on that first landing and wait, wait...

 

You can be shown all the techniques and what you need to do, but then it's up to you to find that sweet spot, and once you 'get' it, things start to progress pretty well. Probably a bit like the first time riding a bike without training wheels, it's really hard until one day it just 'clicks' and you then know what to look for.

 

Sounds like you're going pretty well, but yes if you feel you just can't get it after a dozen circuits or so, sit back for a couple and let the instructor do it. It's good to see how it's done once in a while when learning.

 

Anyway, just my 2 cents.

 

 

[dunlopdangler]

one of the fundamental mistakes "L Platers" can be guilty of is trying to rush the landings (abiet unconsciously) so the biggy is RELAX , take your time and listen to your instructor..

 

 

[kiwicrusader]

Alot of info here, some of which I fear will beyond you although worth thinking about. I, like others, think you might be a little too critical on yourself after only 30 landings.

 

I agree that you need to be looking as far ahead as you can, however your height in the flare Is determined from your peripheral vision only. Unfortunately the picture in your peripheral vision changes on every different airstrip. More practice is all you need and it will all come together.

 

I do applaud you on being self critical, as pilots we need to be. The theory of 'any landing you can walk away from is a good one' is B.S.

 

Keep practicing and enjoy the journey.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[facthunter]

The landings should be controlled. Whether you get it perfect all the time doesn't count as long as you are inputting the plane and correcting it. The precise judgement comes with practice. Nev

 

 

[Dieselten]

Every landing is a different event, even if they are only six minutes apart. Constant practice, the use of the good old Mark 1 Calibrated Eyeball, accurate assessment of conditions and being current on the particular type you are flying all add up to smooth landings. Being "ahead of the aeroplane" also helps. I like to say a good landing is set up on downwind.