What fabric to use?

[Pilot Pete]

Ok all, I've opted to use the Stewart system for fabric covering of my Corella and my Nieuport 11. What I am asking is what others have used in the way of fabric, the approx cost, where they obtained it and why they used it ?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

Pete, I've always gone with the 2.7 oz ceconite. The Stitts Poly-fiber system or whatever it may be called now, was an out-growth or the original Stitts systems. Ray Stitts was the man who came up with the heat-shrinkable dacron system in the first place.

 

The instruction book (also by Ray Stitts) is very complete and very easy to follow. Starting with Poly-tak you coat the tubes or surfaces that the fabric will be attached to. Then attach (tack) the fabric using Poly-tak rubbing it through the fabric . Once all the fabric is well and completely attached, you can do an initial shrinking using a calibrated iron, proper heat shrinking iron specifically designed for aircraft, or in some areas a heat gun or hair blower.

 

Then the whole thing is sealed and coated, with a couple of coats of Poly-brush. This can be built-up , lightyly sanded ,and used as a paint or undercoat base. A further final tightening of the fabric can also be done at this stage. They also have Poly-spray which is their final finish paint, however any good polyurethane 2-pack paint works well with this system.

 

I've found the Poly-fiber system holds up over the years, it is very durable, has good abuse resistance, and most important of all, is simple to repair using the same teqniques as above. It can be brushed or sprayed. It also holds it's tautness well, and has been well proven over many years now. It's what the pros use mostly. Stewart has yet to stand the test of time.....................................................Maj..

 

 

[skyfox1]

Ok all, I've opted to use the Stewart system for fabric covering of my Corella and my Nieuport 11. What I am asking is what others have used in the way of fabric, the approx cost, where they obtained it and why they used it ?

Hi Peter l have used 2.7 ceconite also they call it the Randolf system like Maj said it is easy to use and with last l got all my requirements from Aviquip in Morrabin ring them they will give you a price just work out how many square ft of area you need to cover.

cheers Geoff...

 

 

[Guest turk182]

I've used the the poly fiber system with Aerothane for the top coats, very good system and very forgiving. I did look into the Stewart's system but have heard a lot of horror stories, mostly with the paint end of the job.

 

 

[RickH]

hey Peter

 

Looks like Stits gets the vote.

 

I used this system and am very happy with it. According to their manual it will last 25 years sitting in the sun, you'd probably be wanting to have a good look inside the wings before then.

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Yes, it looks like the Stitts system is the favoured method. I havent read too much on this product as yet.I need to study a bit more.

 

 

[Guest pookemon]

Hi Pete, Do you have the Stewart System DVD's?

 

I've watched a bit of the first one (and fell asleep - soooooo booooooring) and it looks very similar to the covering technique used on RC Aircraft. The difference is that you can just use your hand to tack the cloth in place (whereas on RC models you pretty much must use the iron to tack). The iron they use is available at any hobby shop - I paid about $25 for mine about 10 years ago - and they haven't gone up much in price (Search on Ebay for "sealing iron"). They're good for getting into nooks and crannies and the temperature is easily adjusted.

 

One thing I can suggest is, once you've decided on what materials etc. you are using, make a couple of practise frames (Eg. out of 42x19 pine) and practise stretching the cloth over them. Deliberately wrinkle one or two and practise to see what effect the iron will have.

 

 

[Yenn]

I used Stitts on the Corby, now nearly 10 years old. General condition is good, but some minor cracking where the skin flexes over tailplane ribs. No rib stitching was used on the wings and it has been up to 130kts, so no problems with adhesion. Mydislike is the fact that for a minor repair you are up for high costs, because the minimum amount of paint materia is 1quart and it has to be road transported. For me to get at the nuts holding the rudder hinges on I need to cut a small hole and put in a patch, very expensive for a minor repair job. It is easy upkeep, but not high gloss.

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Hey Pook,Its been a while since I did RC planes, but I remember the process of covering quite well. I havent seen any dvds as yet but have seen a few clips on youtube.

 

Thanks Yenn for your take on covering.

 

 

[eightyknots]

The X-Air site in Australia (http://www.mcp.com.au/xair/pricelists/price_list.html) lists three types of fabric:

 

Dacron

 

Ultralam

 

Mylar

 

I wonder what they are like? Which is better??

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Don't they supply these as ready made skins that pull onto the fuse and wing frames?

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

You can buy pre-sewn 'envelopes' for types such as cubs etc....however you get just as fine a job starting from scratch...............................................Maj...

 

 

[pylon500]

Having done a few cover jobs, I can see some miss-information sneaking in here.

 

To start with, I think Pete.Bess is looking to do a 'glued on, heat shrunk and doped over' fabric job.

 

This is achieved by using any of the 'Polyester' fabrics, whether called 'Ceconite', 'Polyfibre' or 'Stitts' (they're basically all the same).

 

Once you have some fabric, the decision then is how to do the next two processes, finishing the fabric covering and then painting.

 

The early systems combined the last two steps into one simply by finishing off with coloured dopes.

 

The miss-information is occurring when people start mentioning 'Dacron', 'Mylar' and 'Ultralam'.

 

These are basically sailcloths, usually stitched into shape, pulled over a structure and tensioned with straps or lacing, and usually left in their natural dyed finish.

 

Yes, they will heat shrink to a degree, but not as much as purposefully non 'pre-shrunk' fabrics like the Polyesters.

 

The Polyesters are available in a limited range of 'weights', typically 1.8oz(per square yard), 2.7oz and 3.6oz (exact weight numbers may vary).

 

The 3.6oz is a really tough cloth for use on areas of possible high wear or damage, like undercarriage leg frames, or the lower surface of flaps on low wing aircraft.

 

The 2.7oz is the most common weight used on fabric covered aircraft.

 

The 1.8oz is a lightweight fabric, typical on early wooden gliders, many of the early ultralights and over already covered surfaces like turtledecks, plywood sheeted areas and the like.

 

1.8oz and 2.7oz can sometimes be acquired as 'Non Certified' at a lower price, but is usually still the same product, and suitable for ultralights.

 

There are a few variations on what I've said here, like doping and painting Dacron, using Dacron as a laminate over foam structures (think Ken Rand) and 'pre-sewing' Polyester 'envelopes' to speed up covering (although I feel the time taken making the 'sock' negates any time on the job).

 

There are many other points to consider in covering beyond what I've said here, things like adhering the fabric (look into the Foxbat system, very interesting), mechanical fixing, stitching, taping, overlapping, reinforcing, access panels, chafing etc.

 

It's all fun

 

Arthur.

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Thanks Arthur for your info. It's good to hear from those who have "been here, done that".

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Saved me from asking the question later into my design/build.

 

 

[eightyknots]

The miss-information is occurring when people start mentioning 'Dacron', 'Mylar' and 'Ultralam'.

Sorry about the misinformation. The way I read this on the X-Air site they gave the impression that these were different fabric options.

 

One thing is for sure, neither Dacron, Mylar nor Ultralam can be found in the Periodic Table of the Elements so I suspect they are not pure metal wing/fuselage/empennage coverings. The only conclusion is that these three substances must be alloys. Perhaps someone could throw some more light on the subject?

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Dacron,Mylar and Ultralam are indeed fabrics, or synthetic fabrics.

 

 

[pylon500]

As I mentioned, Dacron (which is a trade name) is a woven Polyethylene fabric, typically used as sailcloth on yachts and early hang gliders.

 

Dacron is woven then heat rolled (which gets rid of some of the shrinking tendency) to partially seal the weave, making it less porous.

 

Mylar is a variation on polyester that tends more to be supplied as a 'film' or sheet, and has a fairly high stiffness for any given thickness.

 

Mylar is typically found as a thin, stiff sheet, used to hold the shape on hang glider leading edges.

 

Utralam is actually a combination of various components. Typically it consists of a layer of some form of cloth which has a layer of some form of film laminated to it, either on one side or both.

 

These 'laminates' are usually found in the sail cloth world (again), and also found on hang gliders.

 

The general form is Dacron cloth with a film of mylar heat bonded to one side, to be used as the upper surface of a hang glider wing, sometimes the cloth can be an open weave of Kevlar or Carbon fibres with a film on both sides as used on larger yacht sails.

 

Anymore questions?

 

Arthur.

 

 

[eightyknots]

As I mentioned, Dacron (which is a trade name) is a woven Polyethylene fabric, typically used as sailcloth on yachts and early hang gliders.Dacron is woven then heat rolled (which gets rid of some of the shrinking tendency) to partially seal the weave, making it less porous.

Mylar is a variation on polyester that tends more to be supplied as a 'film' or sheet, and has a fairly high stiffness for any given thickness.

 

Mylar is typically found as a thin, stiff sheet, used to hold the shape on hang glider leading edges.

 

Utralam is actually a combination of various components. Typically it consists of a layer of some form of cloth which has a layer of some form of film laminated to it, either on one side or both.

 

These 'laminates' are usually found in the sail cloth world (again), and also found on hang gliders.

 

The general form is Dacron cloth with a film of mylar heat bonded to one side, to be used as the upper surface of a hang glider wing, sometimes the cloth can be an open weave of Kevlar or Carbon fibres with a film on both sides as used on larger yacht sails.

 

Anymore questions?

 

Arthur.

Just wondering then, where was the "misinformation" in naming these substances as fabric????

 

 

[Louis Moore]

Pete,

 

Drop around here one day and I will give you some old bed sheets you could use. Hell I will even through in some flour for you to mix up and use a dope!

 

Maybe just don't fly in the rain when it's done and you'll be almost, maybe, nearly, sort of, she'll be right, okay!

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

mY DAD USED TO MAKE BROWN PAPER KITES THAT WERE GLUED TO THE FRAMES WITH FLOUR AND WATER MIXED TO A PASTE.

 

oops...........caps lock on

 

 

[eightyknots]

mY DAD USED TO MAKE BROWN PAPER KITES THAT WERE GLUED TO THE FRAMES WITH FLOUR AND WATER MIXED TO A PASTE.oops...........caps lock on

Are you suggesting that brown paper is a fabric???

 

(watch out, this could be regarded as "misinformation")

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

No.... I am not sugesting any such rubbish. I'm simply stating that a flour and water mix is my prefered method of gluing and doping the fabric on my planes.

 

 

[skyfox1]

No.... I am not sugesting any such rubbish. I'm simply stating that a flour and water mix is my prefered method of gluing and doping the fabric on my planes.

Thats all we used when l was a kid making model planes was flour and water it glued well..

 

 

[Louis Moore]

And it's cheap. So lets go ahead and flour up a cake ..... I mean an aeroplane!