You have been told - by kevin walters

[Head in the clouds]

There's a small thing you can do which may well significantly increase your chances of a good outcome in event of EFATO.

 

It used to be taught to all GA trainees, but for a different reason. I've always continued to use it particularly when flying any front firewall-mount engined plane, even when they're LSAs or ultralights.

 

On climb-out we were taught to lower the nose each 500ft so that we could see over the cowl and check for traffic before resuming the climb. However I noted that many pilots didn't continue with that practice once they had their licence, and I can't recall ever seeing any LSA/ultralight pilots doing it, probably because most are tall enough to have a reasonable amount of vision over the smaller cowls of LSAs.

 

Perhaps I've always done it because I'm shorter than most people and so I probably see less over the cowl than most do, even in a Foxbat or Tecnam, even with their relatively low instrument panels.

 

Since I've retained the habit I also use it to help me prepare for an outlanding in event of EFATO. In fact on the occasions when I have had EFATOs under 500ft (2 of) I've not even considered turning back because I'd already located my outlanding spot, so I didn't have to think about lowering the nose, or which way to turn to get there.

 

Because of their lower momentum, and particularly at an airfield that I'm not familiar with, in an LSA I lower the nose each 200ft until I'm above 600ft, then each 3-400ft or so. If there's any crosswind at all straight after lift-off I allow drift downwind from the centreline wherever possible, to improve the turnback situation should I get high enough to do so, and I first look for a suitable outlanding spot anywhere within 90 degrees to windward. Once I have drifted sufficiently downwind I then allow crabbing into wind which reduces the amount I would actually have to turn if I needed to use the outlanding in a hurry.

 

After I've reminded myself of my intended EFATO actions pre take-off, I can't say I really give any of it a lot of conscious thought from then on except very frequent checks on Ts&Ps. I find the lowering of the nose for a look-see prompts the other actions - it works for me anyway so I'd recommend it if anyone is doubtful about their EFATO performance.

 

 

[biggles]

The usual commonsense advice that we have come to expect from HITC. Frequent lowering of the nose would also assist with engine cooling, particularly in the warmer regions .... Bob

 

 

[farri]

It amazes me at how much talk there is, about what should be done in the event of EFATO, but not much talk, if nothing at all, about the particular type of aircraft being flown and the situation it is being flown in.

 

My experience, is in Ultralights! I started flying before twin seat instruction was legal in this country! I`ve instructed and flown many different types and have learnt that though aircraft all obey the same laws of physics they all have different flight characteristics. You can`t compare what can be done in a Drifter to what can be done in a Jabiru or most other LSA`s.

 

I believe that unless we are all flying the same type of aircraft, what can and should be done in the event of EFATO, will firstly, be relative to the type being flow... There are so many factors that come into play, that it can actually be more dangerous to land straight ahead, or 30 degree, left or right.

 

I don`t want to start a conversation on the rights or wrongs of landing straight but I do believe that for the discussion to be meaningful, the type of aircraft being flown, must be taken into account as well as the situation at the time... Simply saying, " Land straight or 30 degrees, left or right", doesn`t do much for me.

 

Frank.

 

Ps, Over the years, I`ve had 3 EFATO on the up wind leg.

 

 

[Geoff13]

There's a small thing you can do which may well significantly increase your chances of a good outcome in event of EFATO.It used to be taught to all GA trainees, but for a different reason. I've always continued to use it particularly when flying any front firewall-mount engined plane, even when they're LSAs or ultralights.

 

On climb-out we were taught to lower the nose each 500ft so that we could see over the cowl and check for traffic before resuming the climb. However I noted that many pilots didn't continue with that practice once they had their licence, and I can't recall ever seeing any LSA/ultralight pilots doing it, probably because most are tall enough to have a reasonable amount of vision over the smaller cowls of LSAs.

 

Perhaps I've always done it because I'm shorter than most people and so I probably see less over the cowl than most do, even in a Foxbat or Tecnam, even with their relatively low instrument panels.

 

Since I've retained the habit I also use it to help me prepare for an outlanding in event of EFATO. In fact on the occasions when I have had EFATOs under 500ft (2 of) I've not even considered turning back because I'd already located my outlanding spot, so I didn't have to think about lowering the nose, or which way to turn to get there.

 

Because of their lower momentum, and particularly at an airfield that I'm not familiar with, in an LSA I lower the nose each 200ft until I'm above 600ft, then each 3-400ft or so. If there's any crosswind at all straight after lift-off I allow drift downwind from the centreline wherever possible, to improve the turnback situation should I get high enough to do so, and I first look for a suitable outlanding spot anywhere within 90 degrees to windward. Once I have drifted sufficiently downwind I then allow crabbing into wind which reduces the amount I would actually have to turn if I needed to use the outlanding in a hurry.

 

After I've reminded myself of my intended EFATO actions pre take-off, I can't say I really give any of it a lot of conscious thought from then on except very frequent checks on Ts&Ps. I find the lowering of the nose for a look-see prompts the other actions - it works for me anyway so I'd recommend it if anyone is doubtful about their EFATO performance.

HIC. It is still taught where I learned to fly and I continue to do it for exactly the same reasons you outline above.

 

I started using as instructed to clear the nose of other aircraft but have expanded it to include searching for suitable outland sites especially at unfamiliar airfields. I have always held the centreline on takeoff until 500 ft and the crosswind turn again as I was taught, however after a discussion I had yesterday and your post I shall consider other alternatives with the view to expandig my opions rather than just being aware of the obvious ones. Of course I will discuss them with an instructor before changing anything in the air.

 

 

[2tonne]

I agree that the response in an EFATO depends on the type you are flying. The first time my instructor closed the throttle in the J160 after takeoff to practice EFATO I immediately pushed the stick forward to get the nose down, but was above best glide speed. Instructor told me to delay pushing the stick forward for a few seconds to convert speed to height and then put nose down for best glide. Next time we practiced EFATO that technique seemed to work well in that aircraft.

 

 

[Mick]

HITC's thoughts about lowering the nose for a look around is not a bad one.

 

Naturally during ab initio training it was pointed out to me what were the options at the field we were training at.

 

Then during cross country training I was advised whenever arriving at an unfamiliar field don't just join the circuit, overfly first, not only to check the windsock, but also to have a look at the surrounding areas and build a mental picture of where you might go if having an EFATO on departure. It then pays to consciously recall that mental picture before you roll on take off again whether it be after refuelling or after a few days stay.

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

This was discussed on Avweb a while ago IIRC.

 

The point made was that the cases where the pilot turns back and successfully lands go unreported, hence only the stall spin accidents make the news.

 

Make of that what you will but I'd suggest some practice 2000 feet above the ground to see just how much height you lose turning back and at what speed. It will depend on the aircraft type, how well it climbs and glides and at what speed. I know it is possible in a glider from under 200 feet (been there, done that). You might want to review your stall/incipient spin recovery procedures at a much greater height before doing this. My BD-4 takes 400 feet to get pointed back at the runway. Depending on the weight, density altitude obstacles, I'm not sure it would always make the actual runway though. I wouldn't think about a turn back under 1000 feet AGL.

 

I got to test my reactions one day just after getting noise cancelling headsets when my wife switched on the noise cancelling just as I was looking left to turn crosswind. The co-pilot now has instructions to tell me before doing that.

 

I once read that famous UK pilot Derek Piggott used to note getting to 60 knots or so on aerotow at zero feet essentially because he reckoned he could do a 180 degree turn from there.

 

The MB326H was recoverable to the cross strip at Pearce after an EFATO if you had got to 180knots after takeoff. Fun aircraft that I got quite a few rides in.

 

 

[pylon500]

I'll bet 'Sambo' was trying to scare you more than impress?

 

 

[Mike Borgelt]

Heck no. I wasn't dumb enough to fly in the Macchi with Sambo. Lots of other instructors though. Only time I got in the same cockpit as Sambo was the Perth Gliding Club's Cessna 180 after it got a new wing after hitting power lines. Lots of time flying cross country in gliders with my Salto and his Phoebus though.

 

" never fly in the same cockpit as someone braver than you are"

 

 

[Yenn]

Be prepared before you start. Taking off at rodds Bay on rwy 31 has nowhere to go within 45 deg of heading, so I am turning left as soon as I leave the ground. that way I avoid a lot of hard trees and could possibly put down into a grass paddock. To do this I keep the nose down for speed and a reduced rate of climb. On the other hand at Old Station I just climb straight ahead, when I am too high to land on the runway I am high enough to turn back safely. 2000m strip.

 

 

[facthunter]

Knowing your aerodromes environs is an advantage. You should have some idea of where you can go and where you can't, if things go bad. Clearing the nose on climb is good airmanship. So is checking to the left before turning. At most aerodromes it is assumed you will TRACK in line with the extended runway, after lift off, correcting for drift, engine out on a multi etc If you are at some bush strip be a bit more inventive if it improves your chances.

 

As Farri says, Planes vary, Mostly with drag and weight considerations. A lot of the first and not much of the second and your speed washes off quickly. You should know what height your plane loses in a course reversal, engine out, not just for a turn back. You should be current and accurate in steep gliding turns, something many never do. Practice Stalls from a turn. The most likely way you will do it. Naturally, do it with a good instructor first till you are proficient.. You really can recover from a stall very quickly in most aircraft, and not lose the height most accept as normal. Eventually you will not be frightened of a stall. If you are you will panic and make things worse inevitably. Nev

 

 

[nong]

TRUTH. When faced with a real EFATO, of those who choose to turn back, most will stomp "bottom" rudder to "get the nose around"....followed by impact.

 

FACT. Many of us don't know what we don't know. A turn-back is not the place to find out.