IanR Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 I had a look at a fabric aircraft yesterday - Auster J1B - basically a very good one but has had an absolute crap paintjob which is now peeling badly. The fabric is ceconite. My question is, is it possible to strip and repaint a fabric aircraft successfully ? Are there any people out there who do this ? Only other mid-term option I see to it is recover the wings - not sure how much that would cost.
skyfox1 Posted June 11, 2012 Posted June 11, 2012 It can be done but with the effort of preparing the ceconite surface it would be better to recover .
IanR Posted June 12, 2012 Author Posted June 12, 2012 Thanks for the response - I was thinking that may be the case - I guess all paint would have to be chipped off somehow so as not to damage the fabric Anyone got any idea as to approximate costs of complete wing recover ?
djpacro Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 When I got my Decathlon refurbished there was one wing that had been recently rebuilt so I wasn't going to recover it but I wanted to change the colour scheme from black and yellow to red and white. I spent many hours gently rubbing it to get rid of as much of the black as I could. It was classic dope in reasonable condition over Ceconite and I was getting it done again in Randolph dope. The photo shows it ready to be repainted - it worked out well. That was 10 years ago and I've just had some of the dope touched up to fix some small bits on the tail and both wings that have cracked and peeled off - all easy with dope. If you are paying some-one to do a big job it is generally cheaper to recover and good to take the opportunity to spruce up the interior.
IanR Posted June 12, 2012 Author Posted June 12, 2012 I am thinking with this one if I buy it that I would touch up some of the bad areas initially where the paint has cracked and peeled, fly it for a year or so, and then do it completely. Problem I have with sanding back rather than stripping completely is that I don't think the paint on it has bonded as well as it could to the fabric.
djpacro Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Seems like you should get a knowledgeable person to take a look at it to help you decide. (and I'm sure that you didn't mean the word "sanding" which would go through the fabric very quickly)
IanR Posted June 12, 2012 Author Posted June 12, 2012 Seems like you should get a knowledgeable person to take a look at it to help you decide.(and I'm sure that you didn't mean the word "sanding" which would go through the fabric very quickly) Yeah - should have been more careful with wording !! I have taken lots of photos of the bad areas and will be talking to my expert this week - I am not very knowledgeable on fabric.
skyfox1 Posted June 12, 2012 Posted June 12, 2012 Hi what color is on the underside of the paint and when the paint flakes off is the ceconite clean .
IanR Posted June 12, 2012 Author Posted June 12, 2012 The colours are very unfortunate - lime green and an off white. The fabric is clean under the paint. There is one section shown on the green where the tape has frayed a bit where the paint has come off but no damage to the base fabric. I think the real issue was the type of paint used rather than the fabric application.
skyfox1 Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 The colors are very unfortunate - lime green and an off white. The fabric is clean under the paint. There is one section shown on the green where the tape has frayed a bit where the paint has come off but no damage to the base fabric. I think the real issue was the type of paint used rather than the fabric application. l was hoping you where going to say silver , looking at your pics doesn't seem to be any silver nitrate after you sauate the fabric with nitrate you then put a coat of silver nitrate for UV protection after that the rest of the coats are with butyrate if l was you l would recover the hole thing .. cheers Geoff... 1
Sapphire Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 I had a look at a fabric aircraft yesterday - Auster J1B - basically a very good one but has had an absolute crap paintjob which is now peeling badly. The fabric is ceconite.My question is, is it possible to strip and repaint a fabric aircraft successfully ? Are there any people out there who do this ? Only other mid-term option I see to it is recover the wings - not sure how much that would cost.[/quote I recovered half the elevator of a Sapphire using the polyfibre system. The silver uv coating was put on over everything just before the final colour paint, so it was sandwiched inbetween the layers. I would do the normal fabric inspection tests on your a/c and if it passes that, then repair the damaged areas. If other areas come loose over time, then plan for a full recover. It's a yucky, messy, toxic job-take out some funeral insurance as well. 1
djpacro Posted June 13, 2012 Posted June 13, 2012 .. if l was you l would recover the hole thing ..... After seeing the pics and reading the recent posts I agree that this is the likely best plan and if it has been around for years with no silver there probably won't be any choice. David Isaac has promoted the virtues, including the low cost, of Austers in another thread but it won't be low cost if you pay some-one to recover it. http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/ra-to-ga-why.40211/page-2
Guest ozzie Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 Paint systems used for fabric aircraft have several additives one being an elastomer that helps the paint to remain flexible and resist cracking. Looks like the type used may be just an automotive base/top coat. No UV barrier either. ozzie
IanR Posted June 14, 2012 Author Posted June 14, 2012 I talked it through with my engineer this afternoon - he agrees with the comments made here - will end up needing recover - his estimate for getting it done professionally is about $10K per wing !! I think I will probably pass and keep loking for one that has already been done. Anyone know of any good Austers for sale ? 1
skyfox1 Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 I talked it through with my engineer this afternoon - he agrees with the comments made here - will end up needing recover - his estimate for getting it done professionally is about $10K per wing !! I think I will probably pass and keep loking for one that has already been done. Anyone know of any good Austers for sale ? Have ago yourself it isnt hard it is quite easy and very enjoyable you could cut that price in half.
Sapphire Posted June 14, 2012 Posted June 14, 2012 I talked it through with my engineer this afternoon - he agrees with the comments made here - will end up needing recover - his estimate for getting it done professionally is about $10K per wing !! I think I will probably pass and keep loking for one that has already been done. Anyone know of any good Austers for sale ? Wise choice. It is hard to determine the condition of any fabric covering even with tests-very subjective. I stayed away from them in my past aircraft-fibreglass is much better, unless one comes up really cheap.
Louis Moore Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Wise choice. It is hard to determine the condition of any fabric covering even with tests-very subjective. I stayed away from them in my past aircraft-fibreglass is much better, unless one comes up really cheap. Come now fabric rules. If we were both to crash on an island, I could tare my plane apart and make myself a bed! It's not impossible to sand back fabric and re-paint it if automative stuff has been used making the rejuvenators useless! It's just a very slow and easy to stuff up process. Where is the J1?
djpacro Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Fine Louis, but if the fabric has had nil UV protection for many years then it may have lost much of its strength. 1
Louis Moore Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 If the paint is thick enough it will block a good amount of the UV's but would need to see it. Also looks like it is in a hangar (most fabric aircraft are kept that way) so UV damage should not be a major issue. Do not get me wrong though, sanding back a fabric aircraft is a MONUMENTAL job that at the end of the day is nearly worthless compared to re-doing the wing. Alternatively you could just wait until all the paint flaked off, I would only think you would have to wait a month or so!!!! If you change your mind Ian, I have a friend looking for a hour builder, does not really care for condition as he intends to fly the hours he needs and put it back on the market at a super low cost, so if your not interested pass on the details and I will let him know.
Sapphire Posted June 15, 2012 Posted June 15, 2012 Come now fabric rules. If we were both to crash on an island, I could tare my plane apart and make myself a bed! I would pull out my one person life raft and engage my palate with prepacked o'derves. After a leisurely stroll down the beach as the gleaming sun hovers over the tranquil ocean, my senses would indulge in samples of gourmet food. Spaghetti with crema di peperone, rucola, & speck would be my choice for tonight. All this washed down with beverages warmed on the campfire you started with strips of flammable aircraft fabric. The last item in my survival kit would be an ELB which Iwould put away to be activated another day. 1
Yenn Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 10 Grand sounds an awful lot. I woiuld hope to recover my whole plane for less than that. The lack of a silver layer sounds bad. I used Stitts and there is a pink layer, then silver, then colour and it is easy to fix as MEK will wash it all off.
IanR Posted June 18, 2012 Author Posted June 18, 2012 If you change your mind Ian, I have a friend looking for a hour builder, does not really care for condition as he intends to fly the hours he needs and put it back on the market at a super low cost, so if your not interested pass on the details and I will let him know. Info sent - I have decided to wait for one that doesn't need the work
Louis Moore Posted June 18, 2012 Posted June 18, 2012 Info sent - I have decided to wait for one that doesn't need the work Thanks for the info Ian, I will pass it on.
spacesailor Posted June 24, 2012 Posted June 24, 2012 Ian, is'nt there one at the OAKS SRFC hanger ! bryan
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