Norfolk Island Savannah S

[eightyknots]

It is only more complex in that you have to assemble the frame with the stringers, then hang the side sheets, then fit the curved corner pieces(which are supplied flat), In the XL the side sheets and stringers are the frame to a much greater extent, and you get a big bit built fairly quickly, takes a long time to put all the little bits on the big bit though. The pieces where the curved rear fuselage transitions to the square cabin frame(also supplied flat) are the most engenius piece of design I have seen yet, It was amazing that they fit so neatly, magic Cad program they must use, $300,000 well spent.

So, they'll have to sell quite a few hundred Savannah Ss before the price will be equal to the XL, to recoup this large outlay!

 

 

[rankamateur]

So, they'll have to sell quite a few hundred Savannah Ss before the price will be equal to the XL, to recoup this large outlay!

No Hank, They spent that on the software they use to cut all the kits. It works out how all those neat little cnc cut holes have to be laid out so that, for example in the lower stringers in a VG XL fuselage where there are about five layers of metal, many of them angles lying inside each other, all the holes line up so you can wriggle the rivets through. That is magic. Obviously ICP are confident they are here for the long run and their investment will be well justified.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Here are a couple of pics I took of Tom's one in Mareeba it shows the curves

 

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

a couple more

 

 

 

 

[Cosmick]

Hi Hadyn,

 

Have you looked into instaling a ERPS (Electronic Rust Prevention System), they work, do some research. Mark has one in his Sav. They are used on Oil Rig Platforms and Grandstands. Professional Beach Fisherman swear by them, I think a must in your environment

 

 

[eightyknots]

The one Mark is using has the best reviews and is not a form of Cathodic protection (I nearly wrote Catholic protection!).

 

The link is: http://www.couplertec.com.au/4wd/suv-systems/4wd-extreme-heavy-duty-system-self-fit-kit/detailed-product-flyer

 

 

[Hadyn Bell]

Hi Hadyn,Have you looked into instaling a ERPS (Electronic Rust Prevention System), they work, do some research. Mark has one in his Sav. They are used on Oil Rig Platforms and Grandstands. Professional Beach Fisherman swear by them, I think a must in your environment

Hi Mike,

 

Thanks for the info, I will look into this a little more as I have not been convinced of these products in the past. One of my syndicate partners in the build of our Sav fitted an ERPS to his new 4WD ute in 2000 when he shipped it to Norfolk Island, this vehicle has just had extensive chassis and rust repairs. I have seen this vehicle deteriorate over the years when I have serviced it. Normally and my preferred method is to dismantle the vehicles and spray with inner cavity wax and coat the chassis with underseal, understanding that this is not suitable weight wise for aircraft, anyway that is vehicles and im all about aircraft at the moment. I believe with regular cleaning, hangerage and spraying with ACF-50 / Corrosion Block at least every 6-12 months we should be right...

 

Cheers

 

Hadyn

 

 

[Hadyn Bell]

Hi Mark,

 

Could you please run your nose over the Sav wiring diagram attached for your opinion on the extra fuses that I think are required. We will stick to the original harness and just the extra fuses as much as I liked your harness and fuse box. If you cant read it I can email it to you.

 

Cheers

 

Hadyn

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Hadyn

 

What you are done is fine putting a fuse in for the trim servo and cig lighter and also the fuel pump and sump indicator. I didn't actually break those lines as I deemed them "aircraft/engine" bus but I did fuse every extra that I put in individually like the UFH radio, Vhf radio, APRS transmitter, Brauniger and MGL Xtreme also my USB/cig lighter module . Thinking about it now I think a separate fuse for the trim servo would be a good move...I think I will do it on mine. The breakers are fine for the engine instruments etc but really it is for a big fault make sure you put the approbate fuse size in for the extras and the wiring you have done but obviously they will be less than 10 amp or 15 amp which ever circuit you are pulling the power from.

 

Mark

 

Bloody rain again today here and supposed to be all week AGAIN !!!!!!!

 

 

[bobcharl]

G'Day Haydn,

 

Noticed you have finished your rudder (amongst other parts). Could you check the alignment of the hinges and post the result please? I have a problem with mine, and I'm pretty sure its the bottom hinge at fault. If yours is OK, I would like to compare some measurements to confirm this. Hope I am not imposing on you too much.

 

Bob

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Bob

 

The bottom hinge on mine was not right either. Its the plat on the bottom of the fuselage I had to bend mine further down to be able to fit the bearing. Steve Donald also had the same problem he did not do it like mine he put the rudder horn outside the bottom plate and woked the bearing in that way. I persisted and bent mine a bit further down and it fitted ok

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Yours is a XL all the S versions don't seem to have that problem I think they have bent the bottom plate further down on the S models

 

 

[bobcharl]

Haydn,

 

Yeah, had that problem too and solved it the same way as you. This problem is different. I just didn't explain myself very well. The central points of the three rudder hinges are not in a straight line, almost as though the hole in the bottom hinge is not located accurately.It will be quite obvious if you look through them from one end if there is a problem.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi bob

 

My hinges all lined up fine the only way the bottom hole in thr rudder horn on the bottom of the rudder is if the horn isn't in the right place but that doesn't make sense either unless the bottom rib in the rudder is out...can you take a pic and post it bob

 

Mark

 

 

[Hadyn Bell]

H

 

G'Day Haydn,Noticed you have finished your rudder (amongst other parts). Could you check the alignment of the hinges and post the result please? I have a problem with mine, and I'm pretty sure its the bottom hinge at fault. If yours is OK, I would like to compare some measurements to confirm this. Hope I am not imposing on you too much.

Bob

Hi Bob,

 

Sorry for the delay as I had the opportunity of co-piloting the the locally based PC12 down to NZ, Keri Keri, Ardmore, Keri Keri, Norfolk from Sunday to Wednesday and couldn't turn that down!! Maybe im getting practice in for our oceanic flight to Keri Keri in the Sav..... 2 hours down there in the PC12, 5.5 - 6.0 in the S ???

 

Anyway, I think I understand what your concern is re the rudder as we had to do a little removing of some rivets on the lower hinge brackets as it was a little confusing and was only picked up when we went to fit the hinge plate. We were one row of rivets down further than we should have been, but easily rectified. Might be a little hard to show in photo's now as we have the leading edge skins on. I will have a thorough look tonight when we have our build session. As Mark pointed out you have the XL model? so im not aware of the differences between that and the S. More than happy working with you on this.

 

Cheers

 

Hadyn

 

 

[Hadyn Bell]

Hi All,

 

We had a enjoyable productive couple of afternoons over the weekend with the fuselage. We thought the lack of clecos would hold us up as the extras we ordered were ment to turn up on the weekly Air NZ flight on Sunday. We couldn't wait so you are not seeing cable ties holding it all together!! All parts lined up extremely well and we ended up finishing the day with the top and bottom skins in place. Haven't really read anywhere about the lack of clecos in the kit?? Paint is all ordered and will turn up on the next ship to Norfolk as we would like to get the flying surfaces painted off while we spend the time on the fuselage build.

 

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Hadyn

 

There is no way enough clecos you actually need about 300 plus of the 1/8 ones (copper)and around 50 to 100 of the 5/32 ones (black) and around 50 to 100 of the 3/32 (silver). You really need to cleco everything BEFOR you start riveting so everything is all aligned to make sure its all square. The wings require a stack load if the 1/8 you really want them all clecoed top and bottom before riveting in the pattern they say in the manual to make sure there are no warps.

 

On another note almost finished the first of the prop pitch gauges...I will make one up for you as well. Just deciding if my hub centre needs to be bigger which I think it would be better if it was....its a lot of turning down on the lather from 75mm down to 25 I maybe be able to come up with a different method

 

Will post some pics later today

 

Mark

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[rankamateur]

Hi HadynThere is no way enough clecos you actually need about 300 plus of the 1/8 ones (copper)and around 50 to 100 of the 5/32 ones (black) and around 50 to 100 of the 3/32 (silver). You really need to cleco everything BEFOR you start riveting so everything is all aligned to make sure its all square. The wings require a stack load if the 1/8 you really want them all clecoed top and bottom before riveting in the pattern they say in the manual to make sure there are no warps.

 

On another note almost finished the first of the prop pitch gauges...I will make one up for you as well. Just deciding if my hub centre needs to be bigger which I think it would be better if it was....its a lot of turning down on the lather from 75mm down to 25 I maybe be able to come up with a different method

 

Will post some pics later today

 

Mark

A cleco every third hole keeps everthing aligned and leaves some holes free to recieve rivets without a lot of double handling. With all those nice purpose built benches you are going to have to start another build Mark.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I did clecos every second hole generally but on curves and other tight stuff I had them in every hole to make sure

 

that way I could rivet a few then take out those ones in between and rivet them...worked all ok for me

 

 

[rankamateur]

I did clecos every second hole generally but on curves and other tight stuff I had them in every hole to make surethat way I could rivet a few then take out those ones in between and rivet them...worked all ok for me

Did you have five or six hundred?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I had about 400 of the copper ones

 

 

[Hadyn Bell]

Thanks for the photo's Mark. Impressive build bench for the wings.

 

Our extra cleco's have turned up and now in use (not quite as many as you!). All panels and holes are lining up perfectly.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Hi HadynThere is no way enough clecos you actually need about 300 plus of the 1/8 ones (copper)and around 50 to 100 of the 5/32 ones (black) and around 50 to 100 of the 3/32 (silver). You really need to cleco everything BEFOR you start riveting so everything is all aligned to make sure its all square. The wings require a stack load if the 1/8 you really want them all clecoed top and bottom before riveting in the pattern they say in the manual to make sure there are no warps.

The wings really bristle with copper clecos! I wonder if someone has set up a kind of "lending library" for clecos? After all, you only need them once (until you get bitten by the building bug and want to start the new and improved plane next, whatever that might be).

 

 

[eightyknots]

... All panels and holes are lining up perfectly.

This is something that I keep reading about Savannahs over the last 18 months or so. Quite a few other kit manufacturers don't seem to have the same accuracy of pre-drilling which says something for the very expensive CNC machinery that ICP uses. This gives comfort to current (and aspiring) builders.

 

 

[rankamateur]

This is something that I keep reading about Savannahs over the last 18 months or so. Quite a few other kit manufacturers don't seem to have the same accuracy of pre-drilling which says something for the very expensive CNC machinery that ICP uses. This gives comfort to current (and aspiring) builders.

This is hard to believe until you are actually involved in building one, the holes all line up and if they don't you are doing something wrong, so fix it! Also if there are spare holes you have done something wrong until recently. I am currently building the stabilizer on a VGXL and the rear spar is drilled for both the XL and S model mounting plates, like the three spare holes under the trim tab, we are starting to see spare holes in an effort to keep the parts inventory smaller at the factory across all the models.