Aviation security overdone?

[Tomo]

Boingk - at Emerald when they were going thru my pack .............. looking for sticks of TNT (no doubt) - I had my ASIC card on me and showed them - they said 'it don't matter - you are not exempt from the search even with an ASIC card' - security kept on looking for 'the bomb'

Funnily enough I've never had a drama at Emerald, or anywhere for that matter! Flew a plane up there not long ago and stopped for a refuel. Waltzed into the terminal and did what I had to do - have a look around, stretch the legs etc... and then the chap let me back out the door. He did say next time I need to wear a hi vis vest, which I do from now on. Flew commercial back home a couple days later and went through without an issue. (other than the plane running an hour half late)

 

My dad on the other hand, you can pretty much guarantee that he'll be the one picked for a drug test, or bag check!

 

 

[Mackay777]

One world Government is surely here. Big brother watches every where:busted:

 

 

[johnm]

Tomo - if you could walk thru without being asked you might be recruited by some Columbian cartel - be careful

 

When being tested for bombs - I asked the bloke and asked if the sensor senses 'drugs' - he said no - its purley a test for explosives - so I'd say a traveller with 'medicinal marijuana' ............ would pass - no questions asked

 

 

[Guest Wigg]

When I fly to Qld to see my daughter & family we both joke about which one of us will be bomb tested. If she was tested on her way in to pick me up, I have usually been tested in Melb. I had one tester test me she asked if I knew what she was doing it for? myreply was yes, she said she pulled me out because she just wanted to hear another english speaking person as she had not heard one in the past 6 hours.

 

 

[turboplanner]

You could always travel by bus of course.

 

Pretty much all the things you are complaining about were instigated directly as a result of a successful aircraft/passenger destruction, or an attempted one.

 

For those who think we in Australia are being penalised for attacks which happen overseas, how about this for some sobering thought.

 

A few years ago I was talking to a new Victorian Minister after a successful election, and I asked him what priorities his new Government was going to set.

 

The number one priority was terrorism.

 

He explained that the Government had already caught, tried and convicted 15 terrorists attempting to kill us in a scale for a few to tens of thousands, and those terrorists were now locked up in Port Phillip Prison, but the Government knew it hadn't got all the cells and would be stepping up security initiatives.

 

There would have been a similar result in other States too.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Turbo

 

Ive of a view that if we are going to do something then do it properly.

 

The fact that any idiot (self included) can see holes in the security that are gapping wide open, and, as others have said, that aviation has much focus and other larger more widespread and potentially more dangerous forms of transport dont seem to have any coverage at all, are enough for me at least to claim that"we are seen to be doing something rather than actually doing something".

 

The fact that the police and intelligence agencies are doing real and effective work behind the scenes is fantastic, more power to them, but that doesnt to me validate me being embuggered as part of a flight with things that keep honest people honest (and embuggered) and does little to nothing for the real terrorists.... Caterers, cleaners and ground staff, who in general are paid subsistence wages only are the real weak link in security, not grandma with a knitting needle, or thread scissors.....

 

Anyway, we can talk about this until we are blue in the face, unlike other political debates, we cant have a voice in this becuase terrorist and security trump everything and need never be spoken of in a considered debate lest the terrorists also determine that the "emporer has no clothes"...

 

Again, if we are gomning to do something, where that something has substanial cost and public impact, then lets get the best we can for the scarce $ we have across the entire vulnerability not just a small subset that is aviation.

 

I always remeber when I was a teen that there was an LPG tanker semi I think it was in Spain (early 80's) that exploded in a city and completely devestated multiple blocks in the ensuing explosion, basically down to scorched earth alone. I remeber seeing the devestation on Telly and then comparing it with 9/11 and I'm pretty sure the semi won hands down. How hard would it be to take over an LPG semi? If that was just a semi, then how effective would an LPG transport ship be?????

 

Andy

 

 

[turboplanner]

Well, I certainly would not like to be embuggered.

 

I think the Spanish incident was the one where a cameraman was killed half a kilometre away.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Tomo - if you could walk thru without being asked you might be recruited by some Columbian cartel - be carefulWhen being tested for bombs - I asked the bloke and asked if the sensor senses 'drugs' - he said no - its purley a test for explosives - so I'd say a traveller with 'medicinal marijuana' ............ would pass - no questions asked

Fairly sure it only tests for nitrates, if you have been on a farm in the last seven days you may very well test positive! I really don't know why they bother sometimes, I could come up with ten ways to better spend the money and improve safety/security...

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I always reckon the best joke is that at the terminal we have cyclone fencing topped with razor wire, all in all about 8-10ft tall, and 100m away we are back to 3 strands of brabed wire about 3 ft tall......

 

That said the yanks on their Airforce bases have the best types of fences, its just a red line painted on tarmac.....if you cross it, other than at teh designated crossing points one or more very serious guards who have been authorised to use deadly force.....take you down........I remeber being on mainland USA with an RAAF exercise and the reservist PR office was taking photos facing away from the red line back towards our temporary sqn donga and slowly, unaware...was backing towards the red line....I remeber the look of intense interest in the guards as they watched him get closer and closer and when he backed over the line.....they pounced on him.....They could have shouted a warning...but what would the fun in that be..... a whole bunch of us techo's were watching with just as much interest as the guards......we could also have yelled a warning....but what fun would there have been in that

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

We have a Blue line in our hangar at Mascot designed to do the same thing, sadly without the armed guards it's just no where near as much fun!

 

 

[turboplanner]

It's not like the old days when we didn't have these bastards (the terrorists.......I know feelings are high about the "defenders"), when Burt Munro was running his old Indian at Bonneville he heard about The USAF Bell X15 attempts to break the sound barrier, with Chuck Yeager the pilot and Bob Hoover as Chase.

 

He couldn't get in the front gate so he drove out into the desert and around the security fence (which must have cost a packet), until he found and unlocked gate and drive his $50.00 Chevy with the Indian Streamliner on a trailer on to the base.

 

He'd had quite a good look round before security caught up with him, and then talked them into giving him a cup of coffee and introducing him to a few of the pilots who were so interested in what he was doing with the Indian that he finished up using their wind tunnel the following year.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

LPG fire are devastating. The one in Spain is often used for reference in training. They are a BLEVE that stands for Boiling Liquid Expansive Vapor Explosion. It just get bigger and bigger and hotter and hotter. The greatest fear of one of the larger ones like those used for transport and storage at places like service stations is that one can set off others nearby and that starts a chain reaction.

 

There was a fire at Alexandria Sydney about 10-15 years or so ago and several of these LPG storage tanks boiled in a fire from a nearby tank that blew the end inspection panels off and launched over Cooks River into the container storage yards. Pretty impressive.

 

I am sure that these dangerous type goods being transported must go through pretty tight security and tracking, at least i hope they do.

 

 

[jabpilot]

The debate about the need for ASIC's and the associated costs appear to have died. Apathy? Has anyone been pinged for not having one at a "security controlled" airport and what were the consequences? How many of us would be prepared to turn up at the courthouse in support of the poor bugger just trying to get to his plane and no-where near a fuel bowser?

 

 

[dazza 38]

Just got home from work.Flew out of Roma this morning. The security x ray machine is all set up and is being used.(Security Peeps where under training).I even had a explosive test done on me.Simple test, a wand is place on your clothing, then it goes in a machine. All Clear:smile:

 

Dunno-what will happen when one the peeps from a mine, that packs explosives into the drill holes will register when the wand is put into the machine.

 

 

[eightyknots]

I have done quite a bit of international traveling and there are a lot of stories to tell about the sheer inconsistencies and even absurdities in the whole 'airport security' game. Earlier this year I was asked about my belt buckle (in New Zealand). In particular, I was challenged about why was I wearing one with a map of Australia on it. I replied: "it is always good practic to carry a map so that if ever I am lost, I will be able to find my way home easily". Even the grim face behind the person asking the question seemed to slacken off a bit and almost turned into a momentary smile. There were no further questions.

 

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just got home from work.Flew out of Roma this morning. The security x ray machine is all set up and is being used.(Security Peeps where under training).I even had a explosive test done on me.Simple test, a wand is place on your clothing, then it goes in a machine. All Clear:smile:Dunno-what will happen when one the peeps from a mine, that packs explosives into the drill holes will register when the wand is put into the machine.

That will be interesting. I know a few guys who have been re-checked after duck shooting a couple of days before, so they are finely tuned.

 

 

[Zibi]

Just got home from work.Flew out of Roma this morning. The security x ray machine is all set up and is being used.(Security Peeps where under training).I even had a explosive test done on me.Simple test, a wand is place on your clothing, then it goes in a machine. All Clear:smile:Dunno-what will happen when one the peeps from a mine, that packs explosives into the drill holes will register when the wand is put into the machine.

I've heard a report from a military sapper, or at least someone who was blowing stuff up for the army, that got tested positive for the explosives.

He just explained who he was and what he did, and all he had to do is to pack all his baggage into plastic bags so that he wouldn't contaminate other people's baggage.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Many years ago, I used my shooters bag as a travel bag.I checked every pocket/section (Well I thought) for any rounds etc. It actually contained 2 spent 9mm cases.Picked up on the x ray.They where pretty good about.I mean we all new that they where not live rounds.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Many years ago, I used my shooters bag as a travel bag.I checked every pocket/section (Well I thought) for any rounds etc. It actually contained 2 spent 9mm cases.Picked up on the x ray.They where pretty good about.I mean we all new that they where not live rounds.

I'm glad they didn't find any live ammo, Dazza!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Your right! Live rounds in the Urban Security eye are capable of being fired accurately with deadly force........without a gun or rifle.

 

 

[winsor68]

Dunno-what will happen when one the peeps from a mine, that packs explosives into the drill holes will register when the wand is put into the machine.

It is ironic how little the machines do return a positive signal all things considered... very ironic indeed.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I'm glad they didn't find any live ammo, Dazza!

So am I.

 

 

[johnm]

I thing a light hearted scrutiny of airport security does no harm ......................... however, other places you'd be shipped off to the gulag for doing so

 

My latest venture thru security - I was contemplating what would happen if security did find a back pack of explosives !

 

Oh boy

 

Chances are the terrorist / idiot concerned would then attempt to detonate the device ............... which would probably make a mess of all the clean airport terminal windows

 

Can we get some 3000 x 3000 x 3000 concrete boxes - say 500 thick reinforced concrete installed in the terminal buildings - they could do bomb tests in there ?

 

 

[Tomo]

Spent hours once talking to a check in security chap who worked at Brisy airport I think it was - it was almost a comedy show listening to the stories he could tell of the things he sees people trying to take onto aircraft. Most absurd thing I remember was some chap with a pulled apart chainsaw as carry on baggage... I mean... It was hilarious hearing some of the stuff people do.

 

I guess that's why we have what we have... unfortunately it seems some aren't getting any smarter!

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Most absurd thing I remember was some chap with a pulled apart chainsaw as carry on baggage...

Provided there were no fluids I'm not getting this was somehow a problem?

 

We seem to have gotten unbelievably pansy.