Viking Engines In Aus

[Kyle Communications]

JAB?.....mmmmmmm maybe jumping out of the frying pan into the fire I think...... and I am not jab bashing just looking at the physical numbers including from people I know who have become members of the JEF club

 

 

[rankamateur]

somethings don't changehttp://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?s=3a16df77c84ecf05babb96bcd08be80b&p=630769&postcount=17

[url=http://www.vansairforce.com/community/showpost.php?s=3a16df77c84ecf05babb96bcd08be80b&p=630769&postcount=17][/url]Anybody who bought one after reading this would have to have rocks in the head.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

JAB?.....mmmmmmm maybe jumping out of the frying pan into the fire I think...... and I am not jab bashing just looking at the physical numbers including from people I know who have become members of the JEF club

Very disappointing; I really like the idea of a good liquid- cooled car or bike engine being adapted for air use. Too often we see them come to grief. Running a successful business is as much about looking after the customers as perfecting the machine.

 

Whatever we say about Jabiru engines, many of us have always found the factory supportive and parts supply to be fast and inexpensive.

 

 

[Sloper]

Goodaye all

 

l knew some people where having problems with suport on the Subaroo and it seems people love or hate him.

 

At this stage it make little difference to me, l have all l need.

 

Will keep you posted.

 

regards Bruce

 

 

[Guernsey]

Good onya Bruce.

 

 

[Sloper]

l quickly read some of the posts on other forums and it seems that the love hate is the case.

 

l have found him cagy on the new figures on the new manifold, so at this stage l wont be ordering one.

 

But it is a experimental aircraft l am building, the latest ECU program is available and will proberly get upgraded again before my first flight.

 

The Viking will have a few hours on different aircraft by then as well.

 

As l said l feel comfortable with the workmanship of the conversion.

 

regards Bruce

 

 

[rgmwa]

He was banned from the VAF forum but is quite active on this one, and there is at least one Viking already flying in an RV-12 (described in this forum) with apparently very good results to date. At this stage the Viking seems to be a potentially good and relatively cheap engine, but still unproven and with development ongoing. The reduction gear is apparently Jan's own design and may prove to be the weakest link in the long run. From all I've read he seems to be a pretty controversial character who hasn't won many points for customer service or support. He obviously doesn't have the resources of companies like UL Power, Jabiru and Rotax, but at least he's offering an affordable alternative. However, it might help if you knew something about engines before you wrote out a cheque for one.

 

http://12town.com/

 

rgmwa

 

 

[JimG]

FWIW, Air Trikes in Canada do an adapter kit with cast bell housing etc for that Honda engine.

 

That is probably the way I'd go as I've liked their SG4 g/box for some time now.

 

Real World Solutions (Tracey Cook) do a fully redundant EFI and ignition system (EC3) with the LS1 modual/coil units.

 

But i suppose it comes down to whether or not you like to build your own Aero engine set up.

 

cheers

 

JimG

 

 

[fly_tornado]

If you have a look at the original L15A1/A7 intake manifold its quite a bit different to the one on the viking. The original design of the Fit is like an Atkinson engine at low speed and an air ram at high speed helped by the VTEC. The original intake manifold on the Viking looked like its crippling the engine performance, the new manifold looks better. I think what he has done with the engine is quiet an achievement but disabling the VTEC and mucking around with the intake manifold will cripple the mid range performance.

 

 

[ave8rr]

This guy in NZ may be able to offer some info on subject engine as he has one in a RV12.

 

http://www.trademe.co.nz/motors/aircraft/aircraft/auction-459086118.htm

 

Cheers

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

There are some very cheap aircraft on that Trade Me site

 

 

[dazza 38]

Plenty of cheap Bantams on there.

 

 

[Sloper]

l can do the manifold myself without a lot of effort, but yes midrange would suffer the most.

 

Mmmmm tuned length manifold.

 

regards Bruce

 

 

[eightyknots]

Here is yet another viewpoint about the Viking engines:

 

My name is Ron Russ and I fly an RV 12 powered with a Viking Aircraft engine. I’m going to start by boring you with some technical stuff on the Honda engine.

 

The VIKING AIRCRAF ENGINE originates as a Honda L15A7 110 hp Honda Engine. There are over 3 ½ million various versions of this engine in Honda cars throughout the world. The original name was FITTA overseas but they soon found out that FITTA in Nordic was a vulgar word for female genitalia. The name was changed to the Honda Jaz.

 

Some of the engine features:

 

• ALUMINUN BLOCK.
   
   
  

 

 

Liquid cooled multiport fuel injected.

 

Sixteen valve inline four cylinder with

 

Overhead cam and roller tappets.

 

Compression is 10:4

 

Some of the things that make the VIKING Engine last longer are a treatment with MOLYDENUM DISULFIDE (MOLY B) on the cylinders and crankshaft bearings for optimum oil film retention.

 

Pistons have a patterned coating on the skirts which improves oil retention and reduce friction.

 

Rods caps are frozen and fracture split for added strength.

 

VIKING ECU: Duel ECU computers are a sophisticated, multi-layered surface mount computer designed for the VIKING engine using cell phone technology.

 

FUEL PUMPS: Duel high pressure fuel pumps. If there are any problems while flying switch to the secondary ignition. This will cut off the primary ECU and fuel pump and switch to the secondary immediately.

 

Many parts on the engine were removed because of weight or were not suitable for aviation use. Most of these part were replaced with light weight aluminum CNC machined parts. An example is the flywheel, oil sump, crankcase cover, timing chain cover, engine mounts, gearbox, and many other small brackets.

 

GEAR BOX: The gears are custom made for the Viking by a aerospace manufacturer. Gears are made of 86/20 alloy steel

 

and are precision ground. Each gear goes through a series of six steps before completion. It takes about six weeks to complete a set of gears.

 

RPM: 5,800 is as high as you want to go. I usually run at 5,100 to 5,200 RPM with a 14 degree pitch on my RV 12. The 701, 750, Just and others in this category usually run a lower pitch. I average about 5.5 gph at these RPMs.

 

FORMULA FORD: The same engine in the Formula Ford runs at 6,500 to 6,700 RPM with the rev-limiter set at 7,000 RPM.

 

ENGINE PREFLIGHT: Drain fuel sump installed under tank. Check oil level. Turn on master switch, turn on primary #1 ignition switch which is ECU and fuel pump, turn on key and start engine. Engine starts in several turns.

 

On takeoff engine has a lot of thrust and nose wheel will lift off immediately so use a little neutral stick and let it take off. I usually don’t use flaps on take off when I’m alone.

 

Some of the things you don't have to do before starting the engine are you don't have to burp the oil sump. You can turn the prop in reverse without worry about doing engine damage.

 

Maintenance: There is very little maintenance with the VIKING AIRCRAFT ENGINE.

 

Change HP fuel filter every 100 hours or at annual inspection.

 

Change oil every 50 hrs.

 

Change gear box oil every 100 hrs.

 

Source: http://12town.com/forum/topics/sun-n-fun-forum-on-viking-aircraft-engine

 

 

[Guernsey]

Thanks for that, very interesting and informative.

 

Alan.

 

PS If I had the money I would love to buy a Viking engine, ship it to Gary Morgan, get him to instal it in a Morgan Sierra and run it for 1,000 hrs.

 

I am sure he could find a pilot volunteer to clock up the hours quickly, I was going to suggest Tomo but he is probably too busy with his Solitaire.

 

 

[eightyknots]

This is an interesting (early) video when the Viking engine had only done 10 hours of flight testing. Jan explains some interesting technical details about the Viking engine:

 

 

(It seems the interview took place about a year ago)

 

 

[eightyknots]

What I like about the Viking:

 

* Any Honda mechanic can work on the engine.

 

* Honda has a lengthy reputation (my daugher's 22 year old Civic still has the original petrol engine in it this is the odometer reading of her car this afternoon:

 

[The engine is always regularly serviced, seems to have plenty of power and may ultimately get to 500,000 km the way it's going now]

 

 

* 10% more power than the Rotax, even more when compared with the Jab 2200.

 

* FADEC dual redundancy.

 

* Honda has very deep pockets (far deeper than Rotax, UL and Jab put together) and they have developed this engine with efficiency in mind.

 

* The pilot can get 117 hp from this engine (at 6,600 rpm) but this is only for a short time in emergencies ...still nice to know that there are 7 horses on standby behind the firewall if it's needed.

 

What I am concerned about:

 

* If you buy a Viking and Jan's company goes out of business, who will continue to supply parts?

 

 

[kaz3g]

I had a Honda Integra which did 410,000 km without a cent being spent on the engine or transmission (or much of anything else) apart from routine maintenance. Best car I ever owned. The last few months I had to put a few drops of oil down the plug holes to pick up the compression for starting it but even then it didn't blow much smoke so the oil rings were still good!

 

My BMW has been a real disappointment. 180,000 kms, all distance driving, and it has sprung several oil leaks due a faulty sender (parts $1200) the computer needs a new gizmo ($1500) and the heater fan needs something ($1000). With labour, about $4500 total. Not very reassuring at all.

 

Only comment about the Viking is that fuel consumption is a lot more than a Rotax according to their power chart figures.

 

Kaz

 

 

[rankamateur]

Hi Crashly, No they are brand new engines from honda so I'm told. I think they would be a great engine and I hope to buy one.It appears I've been misled. Thanks guys for putting me straight.

Tom from Outback aircraft is keen to put one in one of his new Spirit kit aircraft and his information is that they are out of crashed Honda cars with low milage(1500-2000 km).

 

 

[ave8rr]

ra I believe you are right. I read some where a while back that the engines were from wrecked cars with low milage.

 

I think it was on the Vans airforce site that stated this.

 

Cheers

 

 

[rankamateur]

I spent the weekend at Monto sharing a motel with Tom and he is very keen on the engine even with it's source history, he said they modify them in batches of about fifty so anything that is too badly damaged wouldn't make the batch.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I saw a 3 part video last week it is on youtube a personal interview with Jan done at this years Oshkosh. It was interesting to watch he goes from his early life through the subaru stuff which I found interesting he provides good info on most of the issues and why some people dont like him. I found it was all credible and also he does blame himself and explains what he did trying to get too much power/performance out of something he should have left alone when it was running well. I do believe he has learnt a lot of lessons from this and the Viking will be better for it.

 

I like the Viking and have been searching all info I can on it. I am not worried about the blocks being from wrecked cars as its pretty hard to hurt anything like that and I am sure they are all inspected before being converted to the Viking. Its a pity the Spirit was not at Monto being caught up in the Ibis thing but it will be flying soon and I hope to get a ride in it when its available.

 

Mark

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Great to meet you Steve at Monto and have a good chat....I saw yopu and Reg blast off this morning didnt get a chance to say goodbye...how was the trip back.....I am at the farm now and a few spits of rain here now but I dont think it will last very long

 

 

[rankamateur]

Great to meet you Steve at Monto and have a good chat....I saw yopu and Reg blast off this morning didnt get a chance to say goodbye...how was the trip back.....I am at the farm now and a few spits of rain here now but I dont think it will last very long

Was a cloud base @ about 4000 so we only got 3500 for the first hour with light showers occasionally, but it then opened up a bit and we moved up to 5500 it was smoother then it cleared to sunshine we found great smooth air at 7500 and I got stick time most of the way home fter we cleared the circuit and Reg just gave me the grumpy cross country examiner treatment when I drifted of track, drifted off altitude or couldn't tell him what time my next frequency change was to the minute. All excellent experience.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I had a interesting chat to Adam Finn about the BRS in the Sav this morning.....I will follow it up with a email to him this week to get something in writing but it looks like I will order the chute pretty soon....he thinks it will also change the insurance premiums as well.

 

Glad you got some good stick time as well I knew you would have a good trip back I looked at the weather radar after you took off and saw it was pretty clear for your track back.

 

Quite a lot bugged out after you left we left about 12.30 I think