fly_tornado Posted December 2, 2012 Share Posted December 2, 2012 geoff you seem like you are up to speed with all this stuff. Can you explain how the viking's crank being off center affects the vibration through the engine mounts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakej Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 geoff you seem like you are up to speed with all this stuff. Can you explain how the viking's crank being off center affects the vibration through the engine mounts? FT Has anyone read about the RV10 (using Eggenfellner engine) crash in the USA -? makes scary reading http://www.meyette.us/RV10crash.htm a wake up call re Human Factors Too. (Jan) Eggenfellner Subaru engines have/had all sorts of publicity, self promotion & glossy pictures on their website, now with the Viking there is no mention anywhere of Jan Eggenfellner - why ? Has anyone actually talked to someone with an Eggenfellner engine installed? I have been directly involved with one & it's not a good story. I believe there's an RV9 in Vic that has had at least 3 (Subaru) engine failures resulting in deadstick landings, not sure whether it was an own conversion or from USA . Viking engine - this may be a good one, only time will tell, however I believe the question is not necessarily about the engine itself , a glossy brochure just doesn't cut it for me. It's apparent, from other areas I'm involved in, that there is too much reliance on customers being the R&D bunnies. Not this black duck. Jake J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 One of the differences between the Honda engine and the Subaru conversion is the sub has the crank inline with the prop, the Honda is an inline 4 which has much coarser vibrations compared to the boxer. So moving the crank off the centre line of the mounts seems like a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 FTHas anyone read about the RV10 (using Eggenfellner engine) crash in the USA -? makes scary reading http://www.meyette.us/RV10crash.htm a wake up call re Human Factors Too. (Jan) Eggenfellner Subaru engines have/had all sorts of publicity, self promotion & glossy pictures on their website, now with the Viking there is no mention anywhere of Jan Eggenfellner - why ? Has anyone actually talked to someone with an Eggenfellner engine installed? I have been directly involved with one & it's not a good story. I believe there's an RV9 in Vic that has had at least 3 (Subaru) engine failures resulting in deadstick landings, not sure whether it was an own conversion or from USA . Viking engine - this may be a good one, only time will tell, however I believe the question is not necessarily about the engine itself , a glossy brochure just doesn't cut it for me. It's apparent, from other areas I'm involved in, that there is too much reliance on customers being the R&D bunnies. Not this black duck. Jake J Here is the conclusion from the "Probable Cause" report of the crash (it seems like the engine had very little to do with the crash): Prior to a planned trip in the homebuilt airplane, the pilot/builder flew the airplane to assure that it was functioning properly. The airplane was observed to fly north on the east side of a state highway, and to make a circle to the left, approximately 500 feet above ground level (agl). The airplane then flew in a westerly direction, flew across the highway, then turned to the left while losing altitude. When it reached approximately 50 feet agl, while heading east, the airplane rolled wings level, impacted a cornfield, and a postimpact fire ensued. Examination of the wreckage revealed that the engine was not producing power at impact. Both the non-certificated 220 horsepower engine, and the propeller, required a source of electricity to operate. On the night before the accident, the pilot moved the airplane's batteries from behind the baggage compartment to the forward cabin to change the center of gravity and re-wired the batteries into the electrical system. Examination of the electrical system revealed that a cable had become disconnected from an improperly crimped terminal. Updated at Sep 30 2009 5:20PM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Why was he moving the battery? Did the engine manufacturer fudge the engine weight? Jan won't say how much the individual pieces of the Viking setup weighs, just quotes the all up weight. Weight is only part of the equation, balance is the other part. Jan does seem to attract a lot of the "Uncle Arthur" types, who overestimate their mechanical ability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Why was he moving the battery? Did the engine manufacturer fudge the engine weight? Jan won't say how much the individual pieces of the Viking setup weighs, just quotes the all up weight. Weight is only part of the equation, balance is the other part. Jan does seem to attract a lot of the "Uncle Arthur" types, who overestimate their mechanical ability. If you read the entire (lengthy) report, you'll see that the engine was lighter than what he first expected and he wanted to fly his whole family to Boston that day. This would have made the plane too tail-heavy so he moved the battery forward the night before and was doing some landing practice with the new configuration when the incident happened. If you read the whole report, you'll see that this pilot seemed to rush things, e.g., his EFIS had still not been calibrated and there is a suggestion that the 40 hour fly-off was Fudged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geoffreywh Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 FT Quote......." Why was he moving the battery? Did the engine manufacturer fudge the engine weight?....................Ha ha ha . Obviously hell hath no fury like a bigot scorned....I exit stage left Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Yes arthur, we'll see you later. I know you can't avoid the smell of Eggenfella mystery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Why was he moving the battery? Did the engine manufacturer fudge the engine weight? Jan won't say how much the individual pieces of the Viking setup weighs, just quotes the all up weight. Weight is only part of the equation, balance is the other part. Jan does seem to attract a lot of the "Uncle Arthur" types, who overestimate their mechanical ability. F-T, what are you suggesting here? ... that the engine was heavier or lighter than Jan's specs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Here is a review of the 1.3 litre and the 1.5 litre Honda engines. It's the 1.5 litre engine that Jan uses in the Viking engines. This review is worth a read: http://asia.vtec.net/Engines/LSERIESG2/index.html The way I see it, the Viking engine is not only the least expensive light sport aircraft engine in its class, it is also the most technologically advanced. A nice combination. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Yes That story reminds me why you want to be wary of Jan, instead of trying to encourage his customers to be methodical and safety orientated he encourages them to cut corners and take risks. Dan Lloyd killed himself due to stalling the plane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Have a look Jan's original intake manifold versus the new one versus the Honda OEM one. Remember the i-vtec is disabled on the Viking engine and the ECU is not a Honda one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 I would say the Great Planes VW conversion is the cheapest in the class. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Why was he moving the battery? Did the engine manufacturer fudge the engine weight? Jan won't say how much the individual pieces of the Viking setup weighs, just quotes the all up weight. Weight is only part of the equation, balance is the other part. Jan does seem to attract a lot of the "Uncle Arthur" types, who overestimate their mechanical ability./QUOTE]FT you are unbelievable with how much you hate the eggefella. I can't even believe you made a statement like that do you realise how stupid you look to others on this forum..all the onus is on the builder to do a weight and balance REGARDLESS of what the manufacturer says how much the engine weighs its got absolutely nothing to do with the engine this report it is all to do with the builder and pilot himself only for not being vigilant and being slack....all unloaded and loaded W&B are done BEFORE the aircraft even flys to make sure of the positions...maybe you have never done a W&B me thinks you better get the measuring tape and scales out for that drifter to to be sure that 2 stroke didn't lie when it was made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Sorry, I just see Jan as a guy who encourages people to cut corners. Don't worry she'll be right mate... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakej Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Eighty knots Did you not read this -- " By that point they had experienced some high oil temps, and I heard talk that they were thinking of flying the aircraft down to Jan Eggenfellner's shop to work on it before AirVenture." or this ---" I realized by talking to him that he had never calibrated ANY of his avionics, so headings were off (I had heard by 30 to 70 degrees), engine items were alarming all the time and he had issues with choosing to display propeller RPM or engine RPM (due to the reduction unit), he had no pitot test, and nothing had been debugged much at all." & " It really started to worry me that he and Jan Eggenfellner were showing such lack of pilot judgment in participating in such a trip." My main question is this - Has anyone actually talked to someone with an Eggenfellner engine installed? What was their experience with the engine & Jan like ? Viking engine -- my point remains is that why be a part of the R & D team ? for anything, unless of course you have plenty of money to spare in whch case go for it. Jake J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 JakeJ If you read my post #73 in this thread you will see I actually do know someone and infact I have flown in the actual aircraft which is a RV8 and I have had a twiddle on the stick as well ...the RV8 goes like stink it currently does 185 knots and has done probably 500 hours of flying INCUDING flying around australia following the spitfire that did the circumnavigation for charity. There was trouble with the engine several times on the trip but it was caused by dirty injectors from dirty fuel not the engine itself. The package goes very well. My friend was not happy with Jan at the time about getting dicked around when he was waiting for the delivery of the engine and he eventually got it. My friend has also made some changes to the engine in manifolds and exhaust to get more power but the reliability otherwise has been good. My friend also spent a lot of time with Jan while he was in the USA so knows him quite well. he did warn me to make sure of a few things when dealing with him so I have been keeping an eye out on all the info I have seen with this Viking venture and to date I have to say that Jan seems to be doing things much better than before with the suburu stuff as I said he may have learned some lessons along the way. None of us are going to rush out and get an engine right now I am still watching from afar so to speak but the engine is very high on my list but I will still keep watching. All of this discussion is with situations that took place 5 to 10 years ago and really are not current just rolling up all the old crap. Just sit back and watch and do due diligence with the research on the actual hardware and service and backup and see what happens. There are a few here in australia now but none flying. I know one coming in soon and the aircraft wont be long flying after that as it is a ELSA kit already painted so the proof of the pudding will be in the flying. The engine has been made and there is a engine mount being made for it in Florida now for this particular aircraft after he sent his engine mount to Jan so a version could be made to suit his aircraft for the Viking. When it all arrives I will be sure to inform you all of the ups or downs when they happen Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 So is Jan still providing support for the Subarus? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 No I don't believe so. My friend does all his own work on his engine and any mods as it really isnt too hard...its just a car engine with a ECU system and a redrive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 so what do your friend do when the gearbox gets noisy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericg Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Don't you know the answer to that FT..... it's simple, just add some bananas to the box ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 you mean banana skins? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 As far as I know he hasnt had any issues except he did change the front seal and after he did it it leaked in flight but he did say it was his fault he has since replaced the seal the next day and all has been fine ever since...although he does have a spare box Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyle Communications Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 Well FT it is just a gearbox.....whip in a new set of bearings would be the first thing...if the gears are wearing then of course you can get them replaced or at a pinch repaired and rehardened. As I said it is just a car engine and essentially a gearbox to take the power if you look after things and monitor them usually they treat you well.....look at my signature FT at the bottom of this post......there are a lot of monuments out there 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fly_tornado Posted December 3, 2012 Share Posted December 3, 2012 so has he been able to log into the ecu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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