Video: Very short take off and steep climb in Zenair

[Johann]

[medio=full]210[/medio]

 

 

[Johann]

Just bragging at an airshow in Reykjavik, Iceland.

 

 

[Studentbiggles]

Johann....................thats not showing off .............very impressive...............is your pride and joys hangar name "Monkey"? cos she sure as hell climbs like one ..............enjoy our forum and tell us more about yourself

 

Fly and Keep safe...................Alley

 

 

[flyerme]

wow,, incredible...now thats power.. you almost hanging off the prop...love it:beg:

 

 

[eightyknots]

Yes, impressive!

 

 

[facthunter]

You can all go and copy it now and if the engine coughs you will look silly, for sure. It really doesn't require much skill.. Nev

 

 

[Gundy]

I agree Facthunter. I've gotten off the ground in less distance than this video but I always build speed in ground effect then climb. This video shows how some people juggle RISK in different ways. One splutter and it will be flying backwards tail low and into the ground. Gundy

 

 

[robinsm]

There was a Savannah? at Natfly doing short take offs that make this look like a long take off. The natfly one was sensible in that he gained speed in ground effect before climbing. The natfly guy was Bl....dy impressive.

 

 

[eightyknots]

:yikes:That Zenith pilot would have to be careful to avoid this also:

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Good STOL always respects the Attitude/Power envelope. You can only use one without the other for so long, play on one end of the see-saw at your peril, as any two year old knows, swing off one end of the see-saw and you will hit the ground, and get a sore butt!

 

Best angle climb, like credit card debt, is not sustainable -borrow but you eventually have to pay it back....

 

Just some STOL philosophy for those who care.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Impressive, but I doubt he is carrying much fuel, luggage, etc. - or a passenger.

 

 

[facthunter]

Copiers may not be so disposed.. There's no shortage of would-be "aces". Nev

 

 

[skyfox1]

Just bragging at an airshow in Reykjavik, Iceland.

Hi Johann and welcome l am doing a rebuild on a 701 l have a 912 ul what prop do you use .

cheers Geoff..

 

 

[Guest nunans]

Best angle climb, like credit card debt, is not sustainable -borrow but you eventually have to pay it back....

Just some STOL philosophy for those who care.

G'day, I'm someone who cares and is interested but I don't understand yet.

 

Best angle climb, if that's the climb at speed Vx, why is it not sustainable?

 

I think a plane can climb steeper than the best angle climb where it uses some inertia from fast level flight or a dive then pulls up very steeply and as the speed washes off levels out before reaching the stall speed or goes right over the top I guess,

 

 

[Guest nunans]

Best angle climb, like credit card debt, is not sustainable -borrow but you eventually have to pay it back....

Just some STOL philosophy for those who care.

Why isn't best angle climb sustainable? or are you talking about climbing steep enough so that the plane can't maintain airspeed.

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Best angle will give max height for a given distance, perfect for clearing obstacles etc but while lift is greater- so is drag so we now have a situation where thrust is losing the battle over drag therefore airspeed is now declining. Starting to make sense?, get your CFI to explain with pics, if necessary of lift/ drag curves and where the polar curves intersect.

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm not suggesting that it isn't so I'm not really commenting on that.

 

The considerations are, not much cooling air over the engine at highpower, controls are not as effective as at more normal speeds . The margin above stall is reduced to a minimum. Assuming you can rotate forward when the engine fails you will not stall as the aeroplane will be at less than one "G" but it will get a high sink rate initially till it builds up enough speed to unstall and later arrest the ROD and be able to flare. It's a high drag low weight ( inertia) situation and till a certain height is attained would likely have a heavy arrival. There is also the situation of lack of "margin" if there was any gusts etc.

 

Unless your aim is to impress the spectators I consider it poor airmanship to not hedge your bets by having a litlte bit of speed up your sleeve in the early climb stage to cover your self in the event of an engine failure. I have had several of my friends have extensive spinal damage in this situation. It was a while back when you had more of an excuse for not knowing , but today it's supposed to be part of your training. Once you have some height it is not so critical but the "show off" effect is better near the ground Nev

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

I'm not suggesting that it isn't so I'm not really commenting on Unless your aim is to impress the spectators I consider it poor airmanship to not hedge your bets by having a litlte bit of speed up your sleeve in the early climb stage to cover your self in the event of an engine failure. I have had several of my friends have extensive spinal damage in this situation. It was a while back when you had more of an excuse for not knowing , but today it's supposed to be part of your training. Once you have some height it is not so critical but the "show off" effect is better near the ground Nev

Nev you are spot on with this post and unfortunately too many pilots are influenced by images like this but have very little understanding of the risks involved- hence my credit card analogy.

 

What I see in all this is a lack of developed understanding perhaps in the theory of flight, which can only have severe consequences due to ignorance.

 

"Borrow for best angle- rely on best rate"- have the wisdom to know the difference!

 

 

[terryc]

My understanding of this type of take off in a 701 is that if you have a problem like lose thrust below 100 feet you die. The savannah is the same but not as critical because of it's longer wing. some 701s have longer wings also, but all the same I don't think I would be in either at that aoa at that speed. The last flight I had in a savannah we did climb at a very steep angle but only after picking up speed and then continued picking up speed as we climbed. Having said that I love the 701 and the savannah. I'm not one of these people that try to compare the two and pick one over the other, their both great for what they are.

 

 

[djpacro]

best angle of climb is a steady state condition therefore sustainable (until the ceiling is reached) but in many airplanes not a good place to be at low altitude with engine problems

 

 

[dazza 38]

Flying like that all comes down to risk.All people take risks in life.Some calulated, some not.I agree, if the engine fails.It is going to end in tears.What are the chances of the engine failing at that crucial moment? a thousand to one, a million to one? (depends on who makes it and maintains it as well I guess)I dont know myself and I would not do that.I am am a member of the live cowards club.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Not quite as steep but still clearly showing the capability of STOL Zenair aircraft:

 

 

 

[eightyknots]

And another in "looping action"

 

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

No not really looping there, more like an agressive wing-over type turn. But gee, from that in-cockpit footage you can clearly see where the Savannah came from !....

 

Johann, I'd imagine you'd be climbing into a pretty stiff breeze there, but still not a bad performance.............................Maj...

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

The considerations are, not much cooling air over the engine at highpower, controls are not as effective as at more normal speeds . The margin above stall is reduced to a minimum. Assuming you can rotate forward when the engine fails you will not stall as the aeroplane will be at less than one "G" but it will get a high sink rate initially till it builds up enough speed to unstall and later arrest the ROD and be able to flare. It's a high drag low weight ( inertia) situation and till a certain height is attained would likely have a heavy arrival. There is also the situation of lack of "margin" if there was any gusts etc.

In case people weren't already impressed enough with our flying skills, let's try a turn back to the field from this position!

Sorry I should have put up a 'thread drift alert'.