Patrick Normoyle Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 So, if I land at Broken Hill, fill up my tanks and depart, I'm breaking the law? Yep and a terrorist and a blah blah, it is a joke, I have to wear one at work, and the BS we have to go through to issue visitor passes to my wife and kids to visit me in the tower is stupid, you can't get in unles " I let you in" so why would they need one. I had my manager instruct me one day to make I sure all my kids had a visitor pass on while in the tower on Xmas day ( I had to work so we did Xmas lunch in the Airconditioning ) mind you, one of my kids was 5 months old at the time, a real security threat there. And with all the computer power and reduction in staffing, ASIC's still cost a bucket load of money, I'm lucky I don't pay for mine, thanks Airservices, but I feel for you all that do. For those that don't have them, my only advice would be, stay out of any security controlled airport, we have been advised that if we are challenged by the Airport safety/security officers or APIS or AFP, whilst we are airside without an ASIC, it is too bad, you get arrested and detained, questioned and if not a Binladen, you get released and fined for your efforts. The big problem may be if you land at a security controlled airport, they may impound / lock up your aircraft and prevent you from flying your aircraft out without being escorted be a Red ASIC holder. Unfortunately, there is a big cash cow of a barrel that CASA has ove us all.. 1
djpacro Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 It is not CASA doing this to us. Patrick, thanks for the real info. 1
Patrick Normoyle Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 CASA Are very clever, they make the determinations the say we MUST have an ASIC, and they instruct AIRSERVICES To do their dirty work. 1
djpacro Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 Nowhere in CASA rules will you see anything about ASICs. The origin of the ASIC requirement also requires licenced pilots etc to undergo a security check in order to exercise the privileges of that licence. I used to get the 5 year AVID and avoid security controlled airports on my cross-country flights. Once had a long discussion with Essendon Airport Ops Manager about me taking students (who had ASICs) there just for landing and take-off without stopping. All crew needed an ASIC to do that. Wasn't a CASA rule. Moorabbin used to have a few small areas where an ASIC was required so we didn't need ASICs to operate there. Moorabbin lost that exemption so I had to get an ASIC to continue operating there. Not a CASA rule. Walk around Moorabbin airside without an ASIC - seems to me only the AFP cares. Nothing to do with CASA. Whenever I do a Flight Review for a pilot I would ask about their ASIC to ensure they were aware of the requirement just to be helpful - so they don't get into a sticky situation. It is not on the Flight Review checklist and in doing the AFR I have no obligation to follow up security rules.
David Isaac Posted July 16, 2012 Posted July 16, 2012 My understanding is that the ASIC (Aviation Security Identification Card) was introduced as part of the measures contained in a Federal Act of Parliament that was introduced to combat terrorist activity. That is why it is a 'Federal Offense' not to wear (and adequately display) an ASIC when you are in a designated security controlled airport facility. But in addition to that you must have an operational need to be in the security controlled area as well. We should all be VERY aware of this and not be so blase about it. It is only a matter of time and the AFP will make a very expensive example of one of us who claims some moral indignation as to why he should not be required to have an ASIC. When that day happens, good luck, we won't have a leg to stand on ... as immoral as we may claim it is, we are required to have one in certain circumstances under a Federal Act of parliament ... Do any of us want a criminal record because we thought we had some moral right not to wear one ... good luck? Don't get me wrong, I don't endorse the imposition on us potentially making ordinary Australians criminals, we just have to accept the facts as they are until someone changes them. I don't object to the card, I object to the cost. 1
Guest Howard Hughes Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 When conducting operations on behalf of the State, I'm actually exempt from wearing one! We still do however! It's much easier than trying to explain to someone who is enforcing regulations he/she doesn't even understand!
bones Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 My understanding is that the ASIC (Aviation Security Identification Card) was introduced as part of the measures contained in a Federal Act of Parliament that was introduced to combat terrorist activity.That is why it is a 'Federal Offense' not to wear (and adequately display) an ASIC when you are in a designated security controlled airport facility. But in addition to that you must have an operational need to be in the security controlled area as well. We should all be VERY aware of this and not be so blase about it. It is only a matter of time and the AFP will make a very expensive example of one of us who claims some moral indignation as to why he should not be required to have an ASIC. When that day happens, good luck, we won't have a leg to stand on ... as immoral as we may claim it is, we are required to have one in certain circumstances under a Federal Act of parliament ... Do any of us want a criminal record because we thought we had some moral right not to wear one ... good luck? Don't get me wrong, I don't endorse the imposition on us potentially making ordinary Australians criminals, we just have to accept the facts as they are until someone changes them. I don't object to the card, I object to the cost. Ok on that basis, in YCHT they take over the whole aerodrome for 3 days(this time) next month for bl**dy drag races, so my question is, is it still required to hav a ASIC for all these people entering the parimenter, ohh and the best bit is they run a licenced BAR on the grounds. I am under the impression that because they throw out a NOTAM this viods them of everything, is this true???
David Isaac Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Ok on that basis, in YCHT they take over the whole aerodrome for 3 days(this time) next month for bl**dy drag races, so my question is, is it still required to hav a ASIC for all these people entering the parimenter, ohh and the best bit is they run a licenced BAR on the grounds.I am under the impression that because they throw out a NOTAM this viods them of everything, is this true??? The only way that could be done is if the airfield is NOT designated a security controlled area for the duration of the races Bones. As ridiculous as that sounds, that could be done by Notam effectively closing the airport for those three days. I assume there is no RPT during the races ... Clearly designating these country strips as 'security controlled areas' during RPT operations is as absurd as it sounds ... what do they do, throw barbed wire around the area and ship in a bunch of AFP officers for the half an hour when the Saab 340 or Dash 8 arrives and then ship them out again. The whole notion in these country areas is utterly absurd IMHO.
bones Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 I assume there is no RPT during the races ... Well there is NO actual RPT as such, how ever there is mine workers get picked up from YCHT however i think that is only on Tues, Thursday's. So i think i need to ask council for a NOTAM on the same weekend for exclusive use of the airfield for demonstating the machine i got :)
frank marriott Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 YCHT is not a "security controlled" airport and as such NO ASIC card required there. See ERSA FrankM 1
David Isaac Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 YCHT is not a "security controlled" airport and as such NO ASIC card required there. See ERSA Frank, I was wondering why Charters Towers was an ASIC site because they are not normally when only serviced by propeller driven aircraft, but having said that, Taree just north of me only has REX Saab 340s in there and yet it is security controlled and has me bluffed. Is there any hard and fast rules on this or is it determined by the airport operator?
Allegro2000 Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 All, I have just had my renewal rejected because I have two addresses. Their brains could not get around the fact that I am in the city for 3 to 4 days then I am up at the property for 3 to 4 days. I gave the city address but the airfield and the aircraft are at the country property. They stated that I can not have two addresses. You are dealing with public servants. Finally I convince them that I live in the country and it is now being processed but it took awhile. Yes as Mick said it is not a renewal you have to apply again each time. At Mudgee airport you have no option you have to have an ASIC card eventhough the Council is wrongly applying it. It only applies an hour before an after a scheduled RPT flight, the council thinks it is 24/7. No ASIC no fly. Allegro 2000
jetjr Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 If its a federal offence why are local council groundskeepers/operators able to police it? How can they detain you or impound an aircraft? Griffith, Dubbo, Mildura etc etc are Security controlled but only sees Rex/QL Saab's and D8's. - notice the standard stock fence on other 3 sides of the airport. No xray or bag checking to get on the flight either. Why would you need one @ Birdsville?
Guest ozzie Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Individual airport management can in their own right introduce further restrictions above the minimum requirements of the legislation if they wish. If they think 24/7 and the whole airport will cover their butts better then they can do it.
djpacro Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 At Mudgee airport you have no option you have to have an ASIC card eventhough the Council is wrongly applying it. It only applies an hour before an after a scheduled RPT flight, the council thinks it is 24/7. depends what is written in the security plan for that airport. If the council owns the airport they get to write the security plan so I guess what they think is actually what it is.
Allegro2000 Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Ozzie, Yes it is simple Mid Western Council (Mudgee) own the airport therefore they can tell the piper how to play. We can be as indignant as we like but the bottom line is very clear. Allegro 2000
frank marriott Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 David I don’t know what criteria is used to classify an airport “security controlled” but it is listed in the ERSA when they are. Go to REMARKS: 2. This AD is a security controlled airport. [As is the case with Birdsville as mentioned previously] I don't know why some are and some are not but the info for a pilot is containted in the ERSA - so I would suggest that the powers that be [authorised officers] would not be greatly interrested in excuses like "I didn't know" FrankM
Patrick Normoyle Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Here is the link for your enjoyment. http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2012C00415
DarkSarcasm Posted July 17, 2012 Author Posted July 17, 2012 Just to check: 1. I can't use my PPL without an ASIC, correct? Even if I'm going nowhere near anywhere security controlled 2. If I let my ASIC lapse for a while, my PPL won't lapse as well? It's not linked? I realise I can't use it, but I won't lose it, yes? Cheers
David Isaac Posted July 17, 2012 Posted July 17, 2012 Just to check:1. I can't use my PPL without an ASIC, correct? Even if I'm going nowhere near anywhere security controlled 2. If I let my ASIC lapse for a while, my PPL won't lapse as well? It's not linked? I realise I can't use it, but I won't lose it, yes? Cheers Princess, 1. You can have an AVID (cheaper and lasts 5 years but does not give you access to security controlled areas) instead of an ASIC if you choose, but you must have one or the other, because you are a CASA issued license holder. Not so for a RAAus Pilot Certificate holder. 2. Your PPL validity is not linked to your ASIC validity it is just that you cannot fly legally without an AVID or ASIC even with a valid PPL. Regards, 1
Guest Maj Millard Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 I'll go on record as saying the whole thing is a bunch of crap !,... and impinging on my rights as a citizen, to circumnavigate this fine country freely by air !!!....................the terrorists have won !!..................................
Mick Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 ....................the terrorists have won !!............................. Certainly seems like that!!!! 1
reggie Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 So does this mean i've got no hope of getting a asic? I have no fixed address. I do have a p.o. box. I own properties but I don't live in them. So do I have to lie?
jetjr Posted July 18, 2012 Posted July 18, 2012 Ozzie,Yes it is simple Mid Western Council (Mudgee) own the airport therefore they can tell the piper how to play. We can be as indignant as we like but the bottom line is very clear. Allegro 2000 Ok but can they impound your aircraft and prevent access?
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