D-Motor

[facthunter]

That sound like BS too. Oil has to pass through the bearings to cool them and to get to the cylinders. One of the biggest problems of a "Flat head' (sidevalve) motor is bore distortion and exhaust valve seat cracking. I'm not saying this IS happening merely suggesting it's a feature that has to be overcome/coped with in the design application. Designing a good aero motor is not just a fluke or easy. Plenty of "reputable names" have produced failures, or prone to fail models. A Gardiner diesel is OK in a boat and lasts forever (more or less) but it weighs heaps and puts out little power for it's displacement or weight.. Nev

 

 

[xair1159]

Thanks xair. That's good to hear a positive report.Are there many other D-Motors operating near you?

 

Looks like the 'cold water cracking heads' was false. He said it was oil leaking past a rod. Check Kyles Savannah link a few posts back.

 

Cheers.

Super Cub,

 

D-Motor engines flying in UK/Eire that I know of are:-

 

The UK dealer has his demo Hawk and one more customer aircraft due to fly this week.

 

There are 2 other Hawks in the UK, plus an Xair Falcon (F with flaps).

 

The Light Aircraft Company (TLAC) based at the delightfully named Little Snoring airfield have a couple of Sherwood Rangers flying.

 

In Ireland, just me, so around 7 or 8 engines total.

 

Nick

 

 

[Marty_d]

In Ireland, just me, so around 7 or 8 engines total.

Nick

What part of Ireland are you in, Nick?

 

 

[xair1159]

What part of Ireland are you in, Nick?

The West, near Galway

 

 

[Super Cub]

Super Cub,D-Motor engines flying in UK/Eire that I know of are:-

The UK dealer has his demo Hawk and one more customer aircraft due to fly this week.

 

There are 2 other Hawks in the UK, plus an Xair Falcon (F with flaps).

 

The Light Aircraft Company (TLAC) based at the delightfully named Little Snoring airfield have a couple of Sherwood Rangers flying.

 

In Ireland, just me, so around 7 or 8 engines total.

 

Nick

Thanks xair.

 

I'm glad the D-Motor is working well for you.

 

I really thought after 5 years (since this thread started), there would be more of them flying.

 

Hopefully as more engines clock up a few hours (reliably we hope), they will become more popular.

 

Cheers.

 

 

[Brett]

I imagine there would be a lot more flying if you could have one installed and running on the front of your plane for the same price or just slightly less than a Jabiru. If I'm doing my math correctly it's the same price to put a rotax up front... I'd go with that before shelling out a heap on a gamble.

 

 

[facthunter]

That's the problem with a new concept. It does have to prove itself over time. The life of a Merlin was only about 250 hours and a Gnome and Rhone rotary usually did less than 10 before major work. Often the little springs in the piston crown broke at around 2 hours. One of the best GP Mercedes motors pre war had a design life of 3,000 Km's. Nev

 

 

[Geoff13]

I imagine there would be a lot more flying if you could have one installed and running on the front of your plane for the same price or just slightly less than a Jabiru. If I'm doing my math correctly it's the same price to put a rotax up front... I'd go with that before shelling out a heap on a gamble.

The advantage of the D-Motor over the Rotax is weight.

 

 

[facthunter]

And it's narrower as well and a more simple design. Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

I imagine there would be a lot more flying if you could have one installed and running on the front of your plane for the same price or just slightly less than a Jabiru. If I'm doing my math correctly it's the same price to put a rotax up front... I'd go with that before shelling out a heap on a gamble.

That's the bottom line Brett, why bother to try something new when there's no advantage to do so.

 

It either has to be spectacularly better or half the price, preferably both.

 

The advantage of the D-Motor over the Rotax is weight.

Is 3 kgs that important to you?

 

 

[Super Cub]

I imagine there would be a lot more flying if you could have one installed and running on the front of your plane for the same price or just slightly less than a Jabiru. If I'm doing my math correctly it's the same price to put a rotax up front... I'd go with that before shelling out a heap on a gamble.

Funny you should mention that. I had written that in my last post, but then deleted before posting.

 

The 92HP LF26 is listed as $20,700 delivered on the Aus website. However I've just found them advertised in the back of the Sport Pilot magazine for 12,600 Euros + shipping + GST.

 

Not sure, don't you pay GST on shipping.

 

How much would shipping be?

 

Would there be an import duty on top of the shipping and GST?

 

I would expect it to come out higher than $20,700 AUD delivered.

 

Good price for a LF26?

 

I hope they succeed, but I would prefer many more examples clocking up hours.

 

The Rotax is very over price IMHO, but there are not a lot of alternatives.

 

I've just searched the Tecnam P2002 reviews. I was very surprised to see the number of accidents world wide, that seem to note (engine problems) for the accident. They have the certified Rotax 912.

 

I don't know much about the aircraft, hence researching, but are there that many forced landings with Rotax 912 engines happening?

 

That's all I'm flying behind at the moment.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Is 3 kgs that important to you?

When i was doing the calcs when deciding what to replace my jabiru with the dmotor came in almost 9 kgs lighter than a 912 installed.

 

 

[Geoff13]

Funny you should mention that. I had written that in my last post, but then deleted before posting.The 92HP LF26 is listed as $20,700 delivered on the Aus website. However I've just found them advertised in the back of the Sport Pilot magazine for 12,600 Euros + shipping + GST.

 

Not sure, don't you pay GST on shipping.

 

How much would shipping be?

 

Would there be an import duty on top of the shipping and GST?

 

I would expect it to come out higher than $20,700 AUD delivered.

 

Good price for a LF26?

 

I hope they succeed, but I would prefer many more examples clocking up hours.

 

The Rotax is very over price IMHO, but there are not a lot of alternatives.

 

I've just searched the Tecnam P2002 reviews. I was very surprised to see the number of accidents world wide, that seem to note (engine problems) for the accident. They have the certified Rotax 912.

 

I don't know much about the aircraft, hence researching, but are there that many forced landings with Rotax 912 engines happening?

 

That's all I'm flying behind at the moment.

Airfreight to Aus 2 yearsago was about $1250.00 from memory.

 

 

[Super Cub]

Airfreight to Aus 2 yearsago was about $1250.00 from memory.

OK, thanks.

 

So about $1500 now including gst. Maybe a bit less if your $1250 included gst.

 

Was that for a D-Motor or Rotax from Europe?

 

 

[geoffreywh]

Rotax 912Uls retails for about $26K, ignition and oil tank included... PLUs 800 for barrel cowl, , 1300 (?) for exhaust Then you'll want the Honeywell oil pressure kit (600) Oil and water radiators ?, maybe 4 to 5 hundred. So, not much change out of $30,000.. Lets compare apples with apples....

 

 

[Geoff13]

OK, thanks.So about $1500 now including gst. Maybe a bit less if your $1250 included gst.

 

Was that for a D-Motor or Rotax from Europe?

That was for a D-motor delivered factory to Brisbane, all inclusive.

 

 

[bexrbetter]

That was for a D-motor delivered factory to Brisbane, all inclusive.

May I ask how much in total at you front door?

 

 

[Geoff13]

May I ask how much in total at you front door?

I actually cancelled my order for a couple of reasons but it was going to be $23750.00.

 

That was everything except the radiator.

 

 

[Super Cub]

I actually cancelled my order for a couple of reasons but it was going to be $23750.00.That was everything except the radiator.

So that would be around $25,000 for the 92HP D-Motor.

 

I recently priced a Rotax 912ULS. It was around $31,000AUD (without knowing exactly what of the listed options I would require).

 

Difference of $6000 here in Aus.

 

 

[onetrack]

Not sure, don't you pay GST on shipping?

You pay GST on every cost incurred in purchasing the item overseas. That means everything you pay out for, in that country.

You have to provide a paperwork trail that covers every facet of the purchase, from communications to instructions, as well as every invoice you have paid out on, between ordering the item and it landing on the deck here.

 

Would there be an import duty on top of the shipping and GST?

Yes, quite often there is additional import duty on an item, besides GST, up to 10% duty.However, this time, you get lucky. Aircraft engines are duty-free upon entry to Australia.

http://www.border.gov.au/Tariffclassificationofgoods/Documents/chapter84goods_a.pdf#search=tariff aircraft engine

 

Don't forget there is also a raft of charges associated with importation of goods. Things like Customs Dept recording fees, security fees, bond store fees - the list goes on and on, and can add several hundred dollars more again, on top of GST.

 

 

[Super Cub]

You pay GST on every cost incurred in purchasing the item overseas. That means everything you pay out for, in that country.You have to provide a paperwork trail that covers every facet of the purchase, from communications to instructions, as well as every invoice you have paid out on, between ordering the item and it landing on the deck here.

Yes, quite often there is additional import duty on an item, besides GST, up to 5% duty.

 

However, this time, you get lucky. Aircraft engines are duty-free upon entry to Australia.

 

http://www.border.gov.au/Tariffclassificationofgoods/Documents/chapter84goods_a.pdf#search=tariff aircraft engine

 

Don't forget there is also a raft of charges associated with importation of goods. Things like Customs Dept recording fees, security fees, bond store fees - the list goes on and on, and can add several hundred dollars more again, on top of GST.

Thanks.

 

No duty, that's good.

 

Funny how opening that link takes you to Nuclear Reactors 5% duty at the top of the page.

 

Id rather a Rotax 912 anyway.

 

 

[xair1159]

When i was doing the calcs when deciding what to replace my jabiru with the dmotor came in almost 9 kgs lighter than a 912 installed.

When I removed my Jabiru I weighed all the bits and they came to 68Kg.

Same when fitting the D-Motor, weighed everything that went in, engine, exhaust, oil system, fuel system, ECU + cabling, cooling system, coolant and oil and it totalled 64Kg ready to run.

 

I don't have similar weights for the Rotax 912, but I would guess around 75Kg

 

 

[Geoff13]

So that would be around $25,000 for the 92HP D-Motor.I recently priced a Rotax 912ULS. It was around $31,000AUD (without knowing exactly what of the listed options I would require).

 

Difference of $6000 here in Aus.

I actually went for the Rotax in the end. The price you quote doesn't include several items.

 

I believe from memory as I can't be bothered digging out the paperwork but the difference between a new

 

Jab 80hp $10500.00

 

Camit 80 hp $11500.00

 

D-Motor 92hp $25000.00

 

Rotax ULS 100hp $33000.00

 

Weight comparisons to the 80hp Jab motor that was in it

 

These were calculated figures

 

Jab no change

 

Camit plus 1 kg

 

D Motor plus 3kgs

 

Rotax plus 12 kgs (Actual weight difference after doing the job and weighing the plane before and after, was plus 10.5 kgs.)

 

 

[facthunter]

The Rotax has a fairly good redrive so that's a plus (for some) I understand the 80 HP Jab is actual 85 dyno'd. It's a LOT cheaper and simpler (and light). What's the figures for the "new" alloy cylindered Jab motor. Nev

 

 

[bexrbetter]

D-Motor 92hp $25000.00

Rotax ULS 100hp $33000.00

I got to so get into this gig.

 

Thanks for the write up.