rotax oil

[crashley]

Went to the local motor bike shop to buy some shell vsx 4t oil for my 912 rotax but was told it is no longer available and the replacement is AX 7 apparently Bert floods say not to use this oil so what is everyone using now I am looking at using shell aerosport plus 4 but dont know who stocks it locally

 

 

[Mick]

Found the same thing when I bought oil a couple of days ago. I could not get a 4 litre of VSX4 but they did have 3 x 1 litres so I bought that. Was going to get in touch with Floods to get their take on this but you have saved me a phone call. The guy at my local bike shop assured me it was only a name change for marketing reasons. I told him that I need better proof than that before I put it in my Rotax. Did Flood's indicate whether this new product is being considered for approval or is it just a straight "no"?

 

 

[facthunter]

It is supposed to be a rebranded VSX4 marketed as aero oil.( Not a good look to have a motorcycle oil being put in aero engines). The complexity is with the geardrive and Clutch that dampers the torsional vibrations. CHECK with Floods or Rotax to be sure. or SHELL.

 

Even some recommended oils of other brands overseas are not right as the local version may have a different formulation. Life is not meant to be easy. Nev

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

I've been using Valvolene Durablend 15w50 now for three years with no dramas. Generally available at my local Repco..It's on Rotaxs' recommended list if your using a bit of avgas occasionally..........................................................Maj...

 

 

[Vev]

I would stick with the Shell Aerosport Plus 4 if you can get it.

 

As Nev said, the key thing (but not only) you are looking for is the JASO MA or MA2 spec (latest spec) .. this is a japanese classification to indicate suitability for a wet clutch in motorcycles, which is required for Rotax gearbox clutch set up.

 

The Shell Aerosport is approved by the Rotax OEM and you can rely on a consistent formulation and the correct additive packs which also carries the JASO MA spec.

 

Cheers

 

Vev

 

 

[crashley]

this was posted on another forum

 

Just been advised by nearest motorcycle shop (Singleton) that Shell VSX4 is no longer available & they said to use AX7 which is its replacement.

 

I rang Flood's & they said DON'T do it. Use Aeroshell Sport Plus 4.

 

So I just found an easy way to get it. Skyfuel has an online ordering facility.

 

[/url]http://www.skyfuel.com.au/products

 

 

 

 

$171.85 + freight $20 for 12 x 1 litre bottles

 

Flood's had it also but freight was a killer (their words not mine)

 

 

 

 

[Vev]

I've been using Valvolene Durablend 15w50 now for three years with no dramas. Generally available at my local Repco..It's on Rotaxs' recommended list if your using a bit of avgas occasionally..........................................................Maj...

Hi Maj,

 

You talked about using this product on another post and though I would respond and here and stay in topic ....

 

I don't doubt you haven't had an engine problem with this product, however it might be worth considering that by formulation chemistry it has a lower gear loading capability compared to a well blended motorcycle lubricant vis a vis Shell Aerosport 4, which is formulated to cope with an integrated engine gearbox arrangement.

 

I'm not suggesting Durablend isn't a good product ... I just think Rotax's primary recommendation for Shell Aerosport 4 is very hard to beat.

 

By the way I don't work for Shell either.

 

Cheers

 

Vev

 

 

[dahl327]

does anyone use Mobil 1 racing 4t in their rotax?

 

 

[boingk]

Mobil 1 series is a very high grade oil and as far as I'm aware may be suitable. I would refer to manufacturers specs to be sure - both engines' and oils'.

 

One oil I would recommend at least looking into is the Dello 400 range - it is intended for 'mixed fleet' use and is formulated primarily for long service interval deisels. I've been using it in my motorcycles (VTR1000F / XR600R) for a few thousand kay and can so far say that its the best oil I've used in terms of engine smoothness and gearshift feel. Doesn't seem to be going 'downhill' as quickly as other oils I've used as time goes on, either.

 

Again, I'm not saying go out and use this stuff in your aeroplane... but its been good to me in my motorcycles and is certainly worth doing some research on.

 

Cheers - boingk

 

 

[Vev]

Mobil 1 series is a very high grade oil and as far as I'm aware may be suitable. I would refer to manufacturers specs to be sure - both engines' and oils'.One oil I would recommend at least looking into is the Dello 400 range - it is intended for 'mixed fleet' use and is formulated primarily for long service interval deisels.

Again, I'm not saying go out and use this stuff in your aeroplane... but its been good to me in my motorcycles and is certainly worth doing some research on.

 

Cheers - boingk

Hi Boingk,

 

I don't mean to single you out, but systemically your comments concern me in relation to the use of lubricants.

 

Mobil 1 series is a catch all .... Mobil 1 racing 4T specifically is a product that is formulated for Motorcycles, and will be OK for a Rotax 4 stroke engine and is supported by the factory. One needs to very careful about which Mobil 1 they pick up as there are some that will not be suitable for a Rotax engine.

 

Your recommendation to use Dello 400 (A diesel engine oil) is one I would not support in anyway for a Rotax 900 series engine. Oil companies work very closely with OEM's and spend huge amounts of research time and cash to test lubricants to ensure they not only meet the test standards required but also meet backward compatibility with old formulations and a whole bunch of things not obvious to the average punter.

 

I strongly suggest that you don't become a research horse but stay within the OEM's recommendation ... for a few bucks more you can rest assured that someone has spent many years formulating a good product that will do everything you need.

 

Cheers

 

Vev

 

 

[dazza 38]

This is off thread, but I am surprised that alot of people used Shell Rotela Diesel engine oil in their motor bikes, wet clutches and integral gear box.Apparently it works very well. As a KTM owner, I use Motorex.I used Motul 5100 in my previous Yamaha. They were the oils recommended by the individual companies for the individual bikes.I go by what they say.Having said that.That doesnt mean that the others are wrong. To me, it is easier to use what is recommended, even though the oils I use are very expensive.

 

My Nissan Patrol on the other hand.I use Mobile Delvac.Still a excellent oil, but not top of the range like the synthetics used on my bikes.My engine is a old school.4.2 Turbo. 10.5 litres of oil plus 2 oil filters.It would send me broke if I filled it up with the top of the range synthetic oil that is available.Which modern common rail high pressure injected diesels need.I change my oil at 5000 Km instead of the recommended 10 000 km. Nissan recommend use Valvolene Durablend 15 50 like Ross uses.

 

PS- Oils aint Oils.

 

 

[Camel]

Went to the local motor bike shop to buy some shell vsx 4t oil for my 912 rotax but was told it is no longer available and the replacement is AX 7 apparently Bert floods say not to use this oil so what is everyone using now I am looking at using shell aerosport plus 4 but dont know who stocks it locally

Peter Maclean at Yarrawonga is an Aero shell distributor, sells filters too, ring and order and freight is a fixed $20 anywhere for a box of 12, I believe, Ring and see.

 

03 5744 1466

 

 

[boingk]

Vev - Now worries, although I don't know why you'd be concerned about my posting or the reasoning behind it. I merely brought up an oil that I've run for thousands of kilometers, over a wide range of conditions, in very high performance engines with integral clutches and gearboxes. I twice recommended that anyone even considering it do the appropriate research first - this would most likely be contacting the factory and asking them if the oil is suitable.

 

Dazza - Fair call on the factory recommended oils, but to be honest I haven't got a lot of faith in motorcycle and automotive manufacturers recommendations... apart from oil weight and change interval recommendations of course. For most modern bikes, any decent synthetic oil in 10W-40 would be fine and I would highly recommend Dello 400 15W-40 due to my good experiences with it so far and the literally night and day difference in gearchange feel.

 

As for diesel engine oils... they are generally intended for long service lives at high temperatures and are therefore often made with some of the best base stock you can get. They generally contain higher amounts of zinc di-phosphate (ZDP) and other protective, anti-wear additives than other oils (thats a good thing) and are generally quite suitable for many modern engines.

 

Again, I would strongly recommend doing all appropriate research before using any unfamiliar oil in your aircraft.

 

Regards - boingk

 

 

[facthunter]

You are playing with fire by recommending any oil off spec. Long life oils (extended drain) have more of certain additives. Engines are not gear boxes . Where the two are combined there is the clutch to consider if it is WET. The 912 has a gear drive and a damping clutch which has to be regularly serviced( adjusted) I am sure that plenty of high quality oils are NOT suitable for this application. Stick to the specific recommendation.. Most modern engine oils are not suited for Borg Warner gearboxes either, but they were back in the 60's. The oils have changed.

 

With Vev you are getting professional advice for FREE. He knows what he is talking about. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

I would second what Vev and Facthunter say.

 

From a manufacturer's perspective discussions like this have them tearing their hair out in frustration.

 

What they should do is just reject warranty which is what they are legally entitled to do, but they try to keep customers by compromising and the customers keep using opils that have no hope of matching the application, and the engines fail, and the same customers blame the engines and not their thick heads.

 

To say you've used an oil for thousands of kilometres carries no weight at all - you're comparing that firstly with ongoing testing of engines by professionals every day of every working week - millions of hours in aggregate, with instruments attached, microscopic evaluation of the oil and microscopic evaluation from the metallurgy analysis when the engine is sawed up for detailed measurements.

 

Why do you keep on thinking that what someone tells you over a stubbie is sound advice?

 

 

[fly_tornado]

To fail the warranty the manufacturer still needs to prove that the oil caused the failure.

 

 

[turboplanner]

No, the operator needs to prove the engine had a manufacturing defect.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I have said that I agree and use the manufacturers recommendations in my motorbike.I would do the same in a aircraft. The only reason Nissan recommend Valvoline Durablend in their cars (up here at the dealership) is because they buy that oil bulk and use it in all the nissan vehicles.Petrol and Diesel. It should be used in the Nissan Pathfinder and the Patrol 3.0 Diesel as they are a modern diesels that are common rail . It is a waste of money for me to use that oil.It was/is designed for the modern diesel engine.My 4.2 is a old school push rod 2 valve engine. Mobil Delvac is a better oil for the 4.2 engine. I hope that people dont just blindly listen to their car dealer.If the oil (like I use) is up to spec as per the manufacturer.Use it.

 

 

[turboplanner]

That dealer might get a surprise from Nissan if he's just pumping bulk Valvoline Durablend into everything.

 

From the Euro IV upgrade the YD25 diesel engine in the Navara requires an ACEA class C3 low ash 5W30 oil - nearly as thin as water, and it MUST be changed every 5000 km.

 

Valvoline themselves recommend Synpower MST 5W30.

 

Judging from my pocket, this class of oil contains a fair amount of gold flake because it's very expensive.

 

Alternatively, so is another engine

 

The oil is also designed to be compatible with the diesel particulate diffuser.

 

Just so you are prepared, these diffusers don't last forever, and you may well faint when you get a bill for nearly $2000.00 on a relatively new vehicle and know you'll have to do it all again in maybe another three years. because it's a consumable.

 

 

[dazza 38]

That dealer might get a surprise from Nissan if he's just pumping bulk Valvoline Durablend into everything.From the Euro IV upgrade the YD25 diesel engine in the Navara requires an ACEA class C3 low ash 5W30 oil - nearly as thin as water, and it MUST be changed every 5000 km.

Valvoline themselves recommend Synpower MST 5W30.

 

Judging from my pocket, this class of oil contains a fair amount of gold flake because it's very expensive.

 

Alternatively, so is another engine

 

The oil is also designed to be compatible with the diesel particulate diffuser.

 

Just so you are prepared, these diffusers don't last forever, and you may well faint when you get a bill for nearly $2000.00 on a relatively new vehicle and know you'll have to do it all again in maybe another three years. because it's a consumable.

Nissan up here put durablend (not durablend diesel) in both my Patrol and our Nissan x trail.I ask the question and they said they use it all the cars Its a mix fleet engine oil. Having said that.I was smart enough to take our cars to real mechanics after the second service.

 

 

[dazza 38]

My mechanic owns SE QLD 4x4.He used to race 4.2 Nissan patrols in the Australian Safari and in off road comps. He actually uses Penrite.Same again, he gets it bulk at a good price. When I first went to him, he said what Oil do I use.I said Mobil Delvac.It has all the specs required.Good choice, he said. He said how long for, I said the last 2 oil changes, I change the oil at 5000 , half way between to 10 000 kay service.Too cut a long story short. He said, great you continue to change the oil at the half way mark.Ie- at 5000 half way between the normal log book 10 000 kay services.Bring the SAME oil with you for when I do your log book service. He doesnt like brands of oil getting changed all the time.He thinks that the engine is better off using the same oil at every change. He also used to employ nissan mechanics from dealers who only did half the job, when a car was getting serviced. They didnt last long.BTW he is alot cheaper that rip off car dealers and the job is done properly.

 

This doesnt help 912 oil changes, but maybe someone can get something out of this.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Oil companies spend millions on advertising to make you think you are paying extra for something in their oils.

 

Some people are more susceptible to marketing hype than others...

 

 

[turboplanner]

Catch up Fly, there are new issues with the new technology.

 

Nissan aren't going to give themselves a $5000 disadvantage per vehicle sold just because they got sucked in by a marketing hyper.

 

After all Nissan are the ones doing the durability tests.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I just assume what ever dazza says you will disagree with, due to your "superior knowledge".

 

 

[boingk]

Getting edgy guys, and seriously... I am in no way condoning that everyone rush out and buy Delo 400 and use it in their engines. Why do people keep saying that I am?

 

I will reiterate yet again - for the third time - that if you even think of using an unfamiliar oil, ask the guys that made the engine about it. They will straight up be able to tell you either yes or no. If they can't give you a definitive answer then do not use the oil.

 

Regards - boingk