Jabiru engine make excellent paperweights

[planesmaker]

Yes I d[d say a 912s fitted with a c/s prop, that is what makes up any difference in the HP figures! Props have a big variance in efficiently turning torque into thrust. Using a rotax allows a bigger selection of more efficient props.

 

Nev, I will have to disagree about the 140hp, it really does depend on the all up wt.( and the size of the people :-) ) I have had 2 x 95kg + 1 x 135kg people (700kg auw) in my j400, off the ground in about 400m and climbing at 1000' /min and that is with the small wing and 115hp!

 

Tom

 

 

[motzartmerv]

I've yet to see a rotax with a c/s prop. Inflight adjustable is not constant speed. Regardless of what the bloke selling it to you calls it.

 

 

[facthunter]

PSM. Maybe on a cool day. They are a "four" seater and I know people who have operated them in the centre and they really don't do it. The Rotax does allow a choice of props and a larger one or a 3 blade adjustable will give more thrust than the 'toothpick" thing on a Jab. A bit more wing area and you will lift more weight but you lose on cruise speed. 140 HP is not excessive for a 700kg plane

 

Merv the C/S is an easy way to do it but even if you adjusted it by hand in flight you should get similar results to C/S. everything else being equal. Nev

 

 

[planesmaker]

Merv, I Have a c/s prop, set the revs you want then adjust manifold pressure just like the 182 or 210 I used to fly, it will maintain the revs whether I climb or descend or whatever. Nev if you are ever in Tumut I will take you for a fly!Tom

 

 

[Mick]

I've yet to see a rotax with a c/s prop. Inflight adjustable is not constant speed. Regardless of what the bloke selling it to you calls it.

Motz, Have you seen these?

 

http://www.airmasterpropellers.com/

 

.

 

 

[Thruster87]

Mmmmm, it would be interesting to see a Jabiru in some of the places Lycomings have been operating in for decades, from the middle of deserts to the artic circle, from the guy who flies 10 hours a year to circuits and bumps nonstop ,,,,,,Really, I would be pulling my hair out if I was trying to make a dollar out of an engine with the reputation of a Jabiru! Who would be maintaining the Lycomings and to what standard ???? compared to the Jabiru's [Most I should imagine are maintained to manufactures requirements in the RAA arena] Reputation is an idle and most false imposition; oft got without merit, and lost without deserving.”

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Merv, I Have a c/s prop, set the revs you want then adjust manifold pressure just like the 182 or 210 I used to fly, it will maintain the revs whether I climb or descend or whatever. Nev if you are ever in Tumut I will take you for a fly!Tom

That would be great. I've not seen one, but seen lots of adverts saying csu when it ain't.. Would love to see your..:)

 

 

[mAgNeToDrOp]

Stating the obvious - As someone who has trained on Jabs, I would have no hesitation getting back in one tomorrow, but had I read all of this before I started flying, being someone not "in the know", I probably would have gone for a school operating something with a Rotax (less risk), so unfortunately for Jabiru the general reputation of unreliable engines will hurt them.. warranted or not.

 

 

[facthunter]

The only times I have had to do an unplanned landing in U/L's because of engine problems, was with 912's ...The engines were not to blame, as far as the maker was concerned. IF they had been serviced properly........ Incidently no pre-flight would have detected the problem. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

How many forced landings have you made in the old Indian

 

 

[facthunter]

In the late 20's in the USA they had a competition for planes using motorcycle engines. They were plentifull, light and had around 20 horsepower.

 

The Henderson 4 was the most popular.( Smooth) The original POU de CIEL By Henri Mignet also. used them ( Flying Flea) although the most popular was a Scott 2 cyl 2 stroke specially built air cooled inverted engine. The "Flea" was probably the first real ultralight built by a homebuilder for the masses.

 

Haven't come to grief on the Indian. (yet), but I'm careful.. Nev

 

 

[Thruster87]

Who would be maintaining the Lycomings and to what standard ???? compared to the Jabiru's [Most I should imagine are maintained to manufactures requirements in the RAA arena] Reputation is an idle and most false imposition; oft got without merit, and lost without deserving.”

WHAT,,,,,,who do you think would maintain a certified engine in a certified aircraft,,,,a LAME perhaps, and to a higher standard than most of the ultralights getting around ! It takes years to be let loose as a LAME , to maintain a Jabiru ,or any RAA machine you only have to sit in the left seat till someone says your a pilot, this obviously renders the certificate holder the smarts to do the required maintenance ,

 

Exactly, now you are starting to understand my point of view. Cheers

 

 

[Mick]

it makes no difference to a Jab engines who does the work, wether owners or LAME's ,they just don't last very long

I agree MM, I worked as a L2 with a Lame for nearly a year, working almost exclusively on Jabs. We maintained up to 9 Jabs from schools at any given time as well as lots of privately owned Jabs.

 

The maintainence & checks we had in place meant that we only once had a Jab motor stop. But we did find LOTS of problems that would have lead to stoppages if we had not found them. During this time I did not see one motor get anywhere near TBO.

 

Before doing this work I had heard all the horror stories that we all hear, but working full time on these things really opened my eyes. The reality was much worse than I had imagined.

 

For me I would not own anything but Rotax after what I have seen.

 

 

[eightyknots]

....

But we did find LOTS of problems that would have lead to stoppages if we had not found them. During this time I did not see one motor get anywhere near TBO.

 

Before doing this work I had heard all the horror stories that we all hear, but working full time on these things really opened my eyes. The reality was much worse than I had imagined.

 

For me I would not own anything but Rotax after what I have seen.

This is an interesting "on-the-inside" assessment. Many not reaching TBOs are a worry. Perhaps a major revision (read: honest revision) of the Jab TBOs have become a necessity.

 

 

[damkia]

This is an interesting "on-the-inside" assessment. Many not reaching TBOs are a worry. Perhaps a major revision (read: honest revision) of the Jab TBOs have become a necessity.

In fairness MOST GA engines do not make it to TBO. Look at what the initials actually stand for "Time Before Overhaul", it is simply a nominated time that an overhaul MUST be done by (or at least a full teardown and inspection). No one has ever said that that is a "Guaranteed time before possible failure"

 

 

[Mick]

In fairness MOST GA engines do not make it to TBO. Look at what the initials actually stand for "Time Before Overhaul", it is simply a nominated time that an overhaul MUST be done by (or at least a full teardown and inspection). No one has ever said that that is a "Guaranteed time before possible failure"

"In fairness" most would expect that a majority ( ie at least half ) would at least go close to the TBO. As I said above I did not see one get anywhere near TBO. I think the best I saw was 1200 hours, only 60% of TBO.

 

 

[dazza 38]

My Lycoming 0-360 fitted to my Archer made TBO no worries. Then the Hawker Blue seal fitted in exchange was a heap of poo.Had multiple problems with that boat anchor. Didnt stop though.Ended up with a crack in the crank case and other problems.It got people home.Never stopped dead, whilst in the air luckily.

 

 

[blueline]

My Jabiru 2.2 motor is now at about 1800 hrs and running strong. It did require new heads at the scheduled 1000hr top overhual.

 

During this time I have had to replace spark plugs, oil and oil filters.

 

Running on ULP (98 octane) and well maintained in accordance with factory instructions.

 

The one I had before that had about 1300 hours when I sold it. Same sort of experience except for two cracked heads at about 650 hours.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Someone call guiness.. 1800 hrs wothout a single part needing replacement in any machine is news worthy. ;)

 

 

[facthunter]

The TBO is the time where the engine MUST be removed from service, or an extension,(something like"on condition").

 

I don't think one could expect most engines to run to full TBO without in most cases a "TOP" Being done. Some Lycomings MAY make it. That company have gone to a lot of trouble to achieve this , particularly with valve and guide material, but I wouldn't count on it. Some people even reseat the valves before the new motors go into service.

 

With the quality of the Jabiru valves ( and the price) you shouldn't expect to get more than say 400 hours. IF the guides wear you are risking a valve failure if you keep running the motor, and that won't make your day. the valves run red hot, they are getting a hard time. Nev

 

 

[blueline]

Hi Motzartmerv,

 

Yes 1800 hrs is very good.

 

That is not the whole story though. At about 500 hours the engine needed a new crankcase (fretting issue). These were supplied without charge by Jabiru under warranty (I didnt buy the aircraft from them - It had about 80 hours on it when I bought it). So the engine actually has now 2300 hours from new and 1800 hours since the new crank case (which included new bearings and new rings).

 

This is all the the maintenance log so if the Guiness book of records want proof they can have it!

 

I do think I have been lucky as I have heard all the horror stories BUT I personnally have had a really good run with Jabiru products over a lot of years.

 

 

[turboplanner]

And its owner Motz

 

 

[biggles]

Hi Motzartmerv,Yes 1800 hrs is very good.

 

That is not the whole story though. At about 500 hours the engine needed a new crankcase (fretting issue). These were supplied without charge by Jabiru under warranty (I didnt buy the aircraft from them - It had about 80 hours on it when I bought it). So the engine actually has now 2300 hours from new and 1800 hours since the new crank case (which included new bearings and new rings).

 

This is all the the maintenance log so if the Guiness book of records want proof they can have it!

 

I do think I have been lucky as I have heard all the horror stories BUT I personnally have had a really good run with Jabiru products over a lot of years.

G'Day Blueline ,

 

, That certainly is extraordinary service from the little Jab 2200.I assume the engine is in the J160 , but could you tell us what a bit more about the type of flying is the aircraft normally used for - eg. Short/long trips , type of oil used ,oil consumption , cruise CHT's / EGT's , etc.

 

Bob

 

 

[blueline]

Yes it is in a J160. Been running on Shell 15/50 oil its whole life. The last 4000 litres has been on unleaded 98 octane fuel (compressions actually improved when we changed from avgas). Everything is set up factory standard. Apparently the cam is not the latest but the heads are the fine finned variety (for the last 800 hours).

 

Oil gets changed every 25 hours. Burns very little between changes..

 

It is used for training so gets a pretty hard time (usual mix of circuits, training area stuff and the odd nav).

 

The maintenance has always been done by Ian Anderson at Ballarat. I suspect this has had a lot to do with its long life. Ian seems to know Jabiru motors very well.

 

In summary - Nothing special!