Joining Australian air force..

[solomon]

Hey guys, I'm thinking of joining the Australian air force now, but I’m only a New Zealand citizen and I’ve been told you must have an Australian citizenship to join the Australian air force. I can always move back to New Zealand and join theirs but that means I’m going to be away from family and friends for a long time. Is there anyone that can give me a suggestion or is there other ways to get in? I will apply for residents next year when I’m 18, but I don’t know if that will give me any exception.

 

Any help or advice will be great.

 

Thanks guys.

 

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

I can always move back to New Zealand and join theirs

You might want to re-think that a little, have you seen their Air Force? (sorry KC)

Just take out Ausralian citizenship!

 

 

[Kiwi Chick]

Haha HH

 

For what trade do you want to join the Air Force? "Wanting" and "Getting" are two very different things if you want to be a pilot.

 

How long have you been living in Australia? If you've been here for four years, you will be eligible to apply, this was taken directly from their website:

 

Do I have to be an Australian Citizen?

 

For full time or part time entry, citizenship requirements will be satisfied if you are an Australian citizen or a permanent resident eligible for Australian citizenship.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Solomon- It is Royal Australian Air Force. Not Australian Air force.They will pick that up at recruiting if you forget the Royal bit and wonder how much research you have done in regards to the service.

 

If you did join the Royal New Zealand Airforce.The advantage is that you would get to know every single person in that service, being such a small airforce.

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

Good morning Solomon,

 

You don't HAVE to be an Australian citizen to join the RAAF, but it helps...

 

As Dazza has implied, if you do the research, (and getting names right is rule #1 in any career) and if you show your recruiter you're taking the steps to get citizenship, it'll get your foot in the recruiter's door. Then as KC said, you'll still have to put in some serious effort to cross between wanting and getting, no matter which country you choose to serve. There's a lot of other young Wanna-bes out there competing with you. But it can be done, Solomon. So if it's really what you want, then go for it Young Fellah. Do the hard yards, and be a winner...

 

 

 

[solomon]

Hi, I’ve been here for about 6 and half years, and I really want to become a Royal Australian Air Force pilot, and I’m willing to do anything to get that job! I said Australian air force just to make my typing shorter, but thanks for the heads up guys.

 

 

[boingk]

Hi mate, I've been down the road you're looking at... and while I'd encourage you to work hard (and it will be hard) towards your goal, I'd also like to point out a few 'hard truths':

 

• Military aviation is highly controlled, both in terms of flying hours and sorties flown.
   
   
  
• It is rare for somone to become a military pilot before being a commercial one.
   
   
  
• Candidates are hand picked from THE BEST.
   
   
  

 

 

What this means is that you - assuming you get past the initial testing phase - need to be performing at a 100% success rate for every flight maneuver they put you through. Their testing is done on a 'I show, you do' basis and you generally need hundreds of hours of experience to even rate as you must perform their required items 100% successfully each and every time... the first time.

 

Although it is a healthy - and awesome! - goel to set yourself, chances are you will be better off flying commercially. At some stage you may then transfer to the military and become trained on their equipment. This is what I would do, were I to go down that road again.

 

Personally? I'm quite happy owning my own aircraft and learning to fly commercially. For example, my local field owner has said he 'likes my flying and personality' and has offered me a job if I'm willing to do my RAA Instructor rating - I think thats not a bad first step as a commercial pilot.

 

Cheers, and remember; dream your life... then live the dream!

 

- boingk

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I can always move back to New Zealand and join theirs....

Mate don't mention New Zealand during the recruiting interview - mortal enemies. The RAAF may be concerned you could defect with one of our fighters. Having a combat aircraft would be a coup for the RNZAF

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Mate don't mention New Zealand during the recruiting interview - mortal enemies. The RAAF may be concerned you could defect with one of our fighters. Having a combat aircraft would be a coup for the RNZAF

Ouch!

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

Ouch!

Haha - just goofing off, couldn't resist! Actually I think it is a fantastic country & I'm very pro-NZ, also the lady that canned their airforce has gone now thankfully.

 

All the best Solomon, hope it works out well for you.

 

 

[SOS]

It is rare for somone to become a military pilot before being a commercial one.

I think you have this back to front. Candidates with "too much" experience are frowned upon, as they may have picked up too many bad habits. They are more looking for people with proven enthusiasm ... and proven potential. These people can be taught the "RAAF way" from the get go.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I think you have this back to front. Candidates with "too much" experience are frowned upon, as they may have picked up too many bad habits. They are more looking for people with proven enthusiasm ... and proven potential. These people can be taught the "RAAF way" from the get go.

Yep That is how I remember it. That was how it was when I was in the RAAF.

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

I think you have this back to front. Candidates with "too much" experience are frowned upon, as they may have picked up too many bad habits. They are more looking for people with proven enthusiasm ... and proven potential. These people can be taught the "RAAF way" from the get go.

I've known and flown with a few RAAF pilots in my time. And I'm sure there's bound to have been some who had held a commercial license before they started in the RAAF. I just don't recall any that I remember...

 

 

[Guest extralite]

Getting an interview is a matter of meeting age requirements, have very good school results in the specified areas (maths, physics) etc so check those first. Looks good on the application if you have a a demonstrated interest in aviation for some time as this sorts out those who are just filling in the app for something to do. Also helps to have some demonstrated history of volunteering or something to set you apart. Then the medical...asthma and colour blindness are two things that catch a lot of hopefuls out. Then the aptitude tests which you can't do a lot about, spatial awareness, dead reckoning etc. Then the board interview where you need to demonstrate your dedication. Have a good joke ready for them is my tip for that :)

 

 

[Deskpilot]

I think you have this back to front. Candidates with "too much" experience are frowned upon, as they may have picked up too many bad habits. They are more looking for people with proven enthusiasm ... and proven potential. These people can be taught the "RAAF way" from the get go.

Yep, gotta agree. Same in THE Royal Air Force. I suggest you don't say you want to be a fighter pilot either. Just say you want to fly. A career as a transport or coast guard pilot will stand you in line for a second career as a commercial pilot. Also, bare this in mind. A friend of mine wanted to be a pilot but didn't think he had sufficient qualifications etc. He was also very short. So, having the bug to fly, he opted to be a navigator. After his tests etc, he was told that he didn't make the grade, but he could be a pilot if he wanted. A bit different nowadays I guess as navigation has been made so easy, even a pilot can do it. The next time I saw him was when he joined our squadron as a fully qualified English Electric Lightning pilot.

 

Keep your dream alive. Even ground crew in the forces is a job to be proud of.

 

Just another thought. I think a Load Master can be out of the Other Ranks, just in case you don't reach Officer level.

 

 

[shafs64]

I thought the airforce had been tenderd out...

 

 

[kaz3g]

I think you have this back to front. Candidates with "too much" experience are frowned upon, as they may have picked up too many bad habits. They are more looking for people with proven enthusiasm ... and proven potential. These people can be taught the "RAAF way" from the get go.

A young fellow I know was just recently accepted into RAAF. He did his RA and PPL at Coldstream but went no further than that. He did spend a lot of time on his studies and got good solid results. He is also an obviously fit young man.

 

You need to be able to demonstrate academic and psychological aptitude as well as developing your flying skills. It means motivation and dedication but it's a great career and can lead you on to other fields as well.

 

Good luck!

 

kaz

 

 

[facthunter]

I don't feel that they want much "outside" training ie significant hours before joining. Why would they? The standard quite frankly is not good or consistent and it is better to do it from scratch than to try and unlearn bad habits. I think you will find that academic results in maths and physics and good coordination skills etc will be what you are looking for. I recall doing a visual hand leg coordination test way back. I was lucky enough to pick a repeatable pattern in it and did OK. Well that's

 

my story and I'm sticking to it. I have always said that you are only an ab-initio pilot once in your life. Your instructor has a BIG responsibility to ensure that what goes into your head is the "right Stuff". Nev

 

 

[boingk]

This is part of the reason I mentioned 'Commercial Pilot' and not 'Recreational' or 'Private' pilots.

 

Commercial pilots are (or should be) held to a higher standard than either rec or private pilots. There is more in depth learning and higher standards in almost every area of involvement. This is true of everything from personal grooming to stall recovery.

 

I would not suggest launching a career as a commercial pilot before joining the RAAF, but I would seriously consider making your way towards it. If your application is successful, then so be it, and if not... then you have your career path set out for you.

 

Cheers - boingk

 

 

[djpacro]

Commercial pilots are (or should be) held to a higher standard than either rec or private pilots. There is more in depth learning and higher standards in almost every area of involvement. This is true of everything from personal grooming to stall recovery.

Nope. CPL stall knowledge same as GFPT - which for many aspects is"A Essential Must be known completely relates directly to the safety of the aeroplane and occupants" prior to first solo.

 

CPL flying standard for stall and recovery is identical to PPL.

 

In another thread I suggested that Solomon speak to those who have been there - even more important now. Give Matt Hall, for example, a bell.

 

 

[boingk]

CPL will also have higher levels of knowledge which impact on stall recovery - altitude, TAS, available thrust, g-loading and aircraft weight all have an impact. I'm sure there are other factors which I do not yet know of. You are correct, however, in acknowledging that all pilots must show competant stall recovery technique prior to first solo.

 

Most sensible thing I've heard - ask from information from those that've been there. I, for one, am only talking from the point of somone who has gone through application stage and subsequently decided to 'go it alone' and get my CPL via a flight school. Obviously anything I'll say will be somewhat biased to some extent by that.

 

- boingk

 

 

[68volksy]

Air Force/Army recommend keeping your flying to an absolute minimum before signing up - nothing they hate more than having to "untrain" pilots from the GA processes/mindset and retrain them in the Defence force processes. My school has 2-3 recruits signed up for the RAAF and Army who've gone through the initial testing up at Tamworth and are waiting to start training. Talking to one last week and one this week and they were instructed very clearly to keep their flying to GFPT or below. They fly every few weeks to try to keep their reflexes up and because they simply love it. There are another two of them yet to undertake the preliminary training who are doing Aerobatic "Joy Flights" up at Camden to see how they cope with high G loadings. The preliminary training is pretty full-on from what one of them was telling me. They don't bother teaching them much about circuits, just 10-15 hours of throwing them around in CT4's and gauging how quickly they pick things up.

 

Mustn't forget though that the Air Force and the Army both have fleets of supply planes, recon planes and light jets also that require pilots. Getting yourself a seat in an F18 takes an enormous amount of hard work and even more pure talent.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I went to school with a guy who wanted to be a pilot, he ended up cotton chipping, truck driving etc. basically doing anything that paid well and wasn't a career and used the money from that to go to a school in Cessnock? to get his CPL. Anyhow he ended up flying in PNG, which he loved.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

The standard quite frankly is not good or consistent and it is better to do it from scratch than to try and unlearn bad habits.

I'm sure this doesn't apply to Solomon, after all Motz trained him!

 

 

[flyvulcan]

Solomon, here is a bit about my experience. I started Pilot Course along with 26 course mates. My course was a RAAF Academy course so we had all finished a degree before pilot training and we were all 20/21yo when we started pilot training. There were many very intelligent people that I trained alongside. 14 of the 27 graduated as pilots 1 year later which is par for the course as the fail rate is/was around 50%. Surprisingly (or not), quite a number of the academic high achievers failed early. This included one that already had his PPL. However, while doing the CT4 training, the guys that did the best had a small amount of flying experience (maybe 25-30 hours).

 

Then we went to Macchis which really evened up the playing field. There was so much "new" stuff to learn and there was a hell of a lot of it as well!

 

The guys that got through had the following attributes:

 

1. Reasonable coordination.
    
    
   
2. The ability to learn and apply what was theoretically and practically taught to them. You don't need high intelligence but you do need aptitude.
    
    
   
3. The ability to study effectively - there is so much to learn and so much to retain and so little time to do it.
    
    
   
4. Determination - for an entire year, you cannot "give up". Two bad flights in a row and you are up for a scrub ride.
    
    
   
5. Motivation - you really must want this (the best pilots on my course had wanted to be in the Air Force as long as they knew. They never wanted anything else).
    
    
   
6. The ability to balance the high levels of stress with letting your hair down (Friday afternoons getting tanked in the mess, followed by a Saturday where you get out and ride your motorcycle, go waterskiing etc. and go chase girls/boys at the bars on Saturday night. Sunday, you get your head down and tail up studying for Mondays exam/flights.)
    
    
   

 

 

5 years after I graduated as a new pilot, I went back to instruct on Macchis. What a fantastic job! 8 years later, I left the RAAF and have enjoyed my civil flying since.

 

I would suggest the following:

 

1. Try to solo (either GA or RAA) before your initial application through the recruiting centre. This shows motivation and also your willingness to pursue an aviation career.
    
    
   
2. After your initial application, continue towards achieving around 25 hours of flight experience toward your PPL or RAA certificate. This will help give you a basic grounding for when you start course and will help in the early stages. Studying for the required civil exams will also assist you in getting back into the study frame of mind (it could have been a while since you have applied yourself academically).
    
    
   
3. Study up about the RAAF current state and history.
    
    
   

 

 

BTW, I confirm as others have suggested that very few applicants start RAAF training with a CPL. I am aware of one around my time who started with 2500 hours and he made it through training but he was really motivated to fly military. Most RAAFies obtain their civil qualifications just before they resign to pursue a civil career. This is a good way to do things.

 

I hope this helps.