Having your own aircraft

[reggie]

ed-zachary

 

 

[boingk]

Ah righteo Mick, yeah going back to 80kt would be a bit frustrating then! Sorry to hear about the injury, always a bugger when something like that gets in the way.

 

Cheers - boingk

 

 

[rgmwa]

None of us are getting out of this alive.Nev

I heard that rumour too, but so far, so good!

 

rgmwa

 

 

[J170 Owner]

My Jabiru costs about $80 a week just sitting in the hangar. But, it is great to be able to fly when and where I want and do over nighters etc. as previously mentioned.

 

 

[robinsm]

Happy with the one I have, it goes about my speed. (slow and steady).

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Owning your own aircraft is fantastic but it comes at a pretty heavy cost. I think most can actually afford to build or buy a secondhand aircraft its the same roughly as a good car the killer is the on costs. Hangarage and insurance is the killer. Mine costs not quite $400 a month to just have it sitting there between the hangar at $2400 a year and insurance at $2300. But really thats the same as a car payment for most people. The big plus is you can fly it when ever you want you don't have to share or get involved with any of the squabbles that can occur in syndicates and also you tend to look after the aircraft more so the costs are just normal maintenance and if you build it then those costs are kept to a bare minimum.

 

Most say it is more cost effective to rent and this most likely is true if you do the sums. But I can tell you I walk outside my workshop have a look around and say to myself "what a fantastic looking day I think I am going for a fly" I don't have to book anything I don't have to co-ordinate with anyone or worry about if there is any fuel onsite and I know the aircraft maintenance log is all clear when I get there and she is ready to fly. The freedom to do whatever takes my fancy it the reward......and you are a long time dead so while I am here I am going to make the most of it.

 

Mark

 

 

[dazza 38]

My other half always says in her argument, when i mention buying a aircraft.It is more expensive to own than hire.I simply say.You are right.I cannot argue with that.But your dead for a long time and you cant take money with you.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Exactly Dazza

 

The penny dropped for me when I turned about 48 which is 5 years ago now. For some unknown reason I realised..... why was I working my bum off and hadn't done quite a few things that I have always wanted to do before I kick off this mortal coil ?. So since then I have built and flown my aircraft of choice bought a great farm to retire to in a nice quiet place that both my wife and myself love going to and can't wait to finally move there and have peace and quiet and be out of the rat race and also be able to fly off my own strip whenever I want to. I still have to work for a couple of more years to be able to fund a few other things we want to do but hope to retire by 56 or 57 and enjoy the rest of whatever time we have left together which I hope is many many more years ( I am blessed to have finally found the love of my life 10 years ago and the bonus is she thinks like a guy) but if I drop dead tomorrow I can go knowing that at least most of my bucket list has been ticked off.

 

Mark

 

 

[Compulsion]

I lost my best mate to Cancer 3 yrs ago. That really changed my thinking. He worked 12 hrs a day 7 days a week for a big house and no debt. His dream was to one day own a fishing boat and enjoy retirement. He didn't live long enough to enjoy life and i now don't intend to do the same. I work hard for my money but my wife and I enjoy a good life. She loves to travel so goes overseas with her mother every few years and I buy toys like a second hand plane. We have never had children so we have a good disposable income. Flying is so much cheaper than the big power boat I just got rid of. Live life for today as we may not be here tomorrow is my motto.

 

 

[petetheprinta]

I have recently sold off my boys toys....why? It suddenly struck me i wasn't using them anymore. At 64 years young I rode my Harley's maybe once a month if the weather was fine. Having $100,000 of motorcycles sitting in a shed was ludicrous even I could see that. My cruiser costing me $400 a week just to maintain and sit in the marina? Another waste of money. Large 4WD used to go bush maybe 2-3 times a year, I use another car for every day usage and then there was my wife's car. Therefore Giant 4WD...gone too, use maybe 6 weeks a year. I can justify the selling off because I can hire whatever I want whenever I want at a fraction of the cost of owning them. Not that the expense is a problem, it's just a total waste, I have long passed the time in my life where I need to brag my Harley is better than yours or my boat is bigger than yours or "what...you don't own an aeroplane?"

 

I had great intentions to buy my own plane, in light of the above and now knowing people who do own their own planes I decided against it. I know several pilots at the ASC who have owned their aircraft for several years and have a whole 100 hours up. IMHO, waste of a perfectly good aircraft. Don't get me wrong, the choice is theirs and they are happy with that choice and more power to them.

 

So I decided to hire and fly, at the ASC I CAN get an aircraft whenever I want to (weather permitting) there are half a dozen aircraft available to hire pretty well 7 days a week. Saturday and wednesday are a struggle due to training days. As a retired gentleman of leisure I can go just about any time I wish. THE BIGGEST ADVANTAGE, no ongoing costs I pay my $120 per flying hour and never have to worry about fuel, oil, maintenance, insurance, repairs, hanger fees etc etc. 50 hrs a year (more hours than a lot of owners I know) costs me a grand total of $6000. Less than the cost of insurance and hanger fees. I couldn't own/run a plane for anywhere near that cost for 12 months. 10 years hiring is less than the cost to purchase never mind run a plane. IMHO, the only way to fly.

 

Having said all that, if I had a property somewhere with enough room for an airstrip, I wouldn't hesitate to get an aircraft (maybe 2, one as a spare)

 

 

[IanR]

Ian R, Living makes no financial sense either since no-one has worked out how to take or use their money after death. Enjoy Your old aeroplane. What's it going to be? Nev

Not as old as the bikes Nev - a 1955 Auster J5B as long as everything proceeds as planned !

 

 

[facthunter]

Is that the Autocar with 145 HP Gipsy. 4 seats.? Nev

 

 

[rgmwa]

As others have pointed out, owning an aircraft (as a sole owner) makes little or no financial sense for the majority of us. For those who fly an average number of hours per year, it will be cheaper and easier to rent or join a syndicate. However, for me the appeal is as much about building my own aircraft as the idea of owning our own plane and hopefully being able to travel places in it. It comes at a big financial cost to be sure, but I will probably only get one chance to do it. The kids are now independent and I'm still working, so if I'm ever going to do it then now is the time. No doubt we will retire with less money than we might have had, but an opportunity missed is an opportunity lost.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[68volksy]

I'm a huge advocate of hiring aircraft. Simple case of amortising the costs of running the aircraft over greater hours means the hourly cost is a lot cheaper. Takes a lot of hours hiring the school's Gazelle at $135/hour to even come close to breaking even on the ownership case. I also believe that a well used aircraft is a safer aircraft in many respects as it's getting more regular servicing and not sitting around rotting.

 

Having seen the running costs of quite a few aircraft over many years and some of the bills that come up from time to time the only rational choice is to hire. If you find yourself a great organisation where the aircraft are treasured by all who fly them then you can achieve a sense of ownership without forking out the big bucks.

 

 

[dazza 38]

They way I have approach things that I have wanted to do in life.Hobbie wise, not work wise. Is that I kinda work backwards. I try it imagine that I am laying on my death bed and pondering whether I have done all the things in life that I wanted to acheive. ATM there are a few things that I have not done.I am aiming to complete those things before I end up being too old to do them.

 

Like a bucket list I guess.

 

 

[IanR]

Is that the Autocar with 145 HP Gipsy. 4 seats.? Nev

Its the first model Autocar - I think they have 130hp - later ones had the more powerful one

 

 

[Admin]

Gotta say this thread is getting some great posts...posts that I am sure will help others

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Maybe, you could do a poll on fractional ownership of aircraft. That seems one path that a lot of people don't look at.

 

 

[facthunter]

Dazza, Quote"' ATM, there are a few things I have not done" . Mate, there's nearly everything I have NOT done.

 

f.t. Are we talking of a "syndicate"( group ownership)? Quite a few go into that. It may well be an alternative. IF you are careful. Nev

 

 

[M61A1]

I find it a little sad that in more recent times, the trend seems to be to go out and get yourself into significant debt to aquire something really flash ( not unlike our housing trend really). Yes, I can see a case for being able to go everywhere at 150 kts in quiet comfort, but for me, and I hope, others, the pleasure of cruising at 60 kts in something that you built( or restored) and maintain yourself, far outweighs the prospect of being shackled to a massive debt and living in constant fear of losing your a/c.

 

There are ways of reducing costs, with labour being the most expensive part of the deal, do it yourself, if you're smart enough to learn to fly, surely, you're smart enough to learn how to fix it. Hangarage.......put it in a closed trailer. Another benefit of designing and building yourself is, not having to use certified parts, that's right, you get to determine which parts are best for your a/c, there is a massive saving right there.

 

It may not be as fast or flash as your mate's a/c, but it will be yours, not the banks, and it will be very satisfying.

 

 

[facthunter]

If you want to get across australia you may want to go fast. M6IAI, I'm with you. If you clobber a bird at 150 knots in a U/L you are history. Also you feel every bit of turbulence and your plane has to be a U beautcarbon fibre thingy. 105 knots is fine unless there is a strong headwind. Why do people want to get there so fast? Don't they like flying? Nev

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I noticed around the world there are a few private car clubs, where the focus is on acquiring a lot of cars, most of the cars are usually all too expensive to justify buying but as a club they can afford several, for members the clubs aren't exactly cheap but they put a bunch of exotics into the hands of average folks. I am always curious to hear why pilots aren't interested in getting involved in this sort of endeavour.

 

 

[rgmwa]

Well said M61A1. You can save a lot, learn a lot, and have fun on the way by building/fixing it yourself. It doesn't have to be flash, as long as it's yours. If you need a bank to be the majority shareholder, then look for something cheaper.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[M61A1]

I noticed around the world there are a few private car clubs, where the focus is on acquiring a lot of cars, most of the cars are usually all too expensive to justify buying but as a club they can afford several, for members the clubs aren't exactly cheap but they put a bunch of exotics into the hands of average folks. I am always curious to hear why pilots aren't interested in getting involved in this sort of endeavour.

A workmate of mine got involved with a certain car club back in the eighties. He put a lot of time and effort in his restoration, but did it all himself. The very first thing out of the club presidents mouth......."Oh, it'll be a nice car when it's restored". These were all the sort of people who did chequebook restorations. They were ridiculous to listen to......."I should have my engine back from the shop later this week"........" my painter should be finished with the body on Friday, I hope he hasn't screwed it up like last time"....."So I should be able to get my mechanic to put it all together by next week".

Then finally......."look at this car that I built".

 

Syndicates can work, but more often they don't.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I meant more like this http://www.p1international.com/homepage.php