Aluminium fuel tank?

[bacon]

What about a plastic tank. There are a few different types on the market or get one made in Toowoomba. Light, ding resistannt, easily repaired, chemicle proof.

Hi Pete

 

Where abouts in toowoomba makes these tanks, im trying to get one for my drifter.

 

cheers Jamie

 

 

[facthunter]

I think the right type of plastic tank would be worth considering as well. Fibreglass is my last option with the types of fuels that are about. Nev

 

 

[corvairkr]

I was planning on using Derakane vinyl ester for the wing tanks in my modified KR project to combat ethanol but the KR boys in the states are are having mixed results , some have gone years with no problems others were getting a caramel like sludge within months . i will more than likely go with the aluminium .

 

Here's one way of doing it http://www.krnet.org/wingtank/

 

I am considering pumping from the wing tanks to a small plastic header tank http://www.summitracing.com/search/Part-Type/Fuel-Cells/?keyword=plastic+fuel+cells they're perfect ,come in a range of sizes and for the price i dont think it would be worth the effort and cost to make one out of fiberglass .

 

jason

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Amalgamated Plastic Engineering

 

 

Plastics--Fabricators - Toowoomba, QLD

 

362- 364 Anzac Ave, Toowoomba QLD 4350, Australia

 

(07) 4614 0044

 

 

 

 

[dazza 38]

I used MEK for 12 years as a Pool plumber.It is easy to get.PVC Pipe cleaner is 100% MEK. I wouldnt be too worrried about getting it on you..Plumbers get it on themselves everyday .I did for 12 years and there is nothing wrong with me look

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

I used it for many years as a plumber as well and suffered no ill effects. We used a rag soaked in it and always had it on our hands.

 

Prepsol, or grease and wax remover as used with automtive paints does a good job of cleaning for repairs on fiberglass and the likes.

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Tomo Try a marine poly tank . You can get them in many shapes and sizes already plumbed and ready to go and are completely compatible with two stroke mix. Try Whitworths marine online shop, Cheers,

 

Andy

 

 

[kgwilson]

Well there you have it. Almost every conceivable material can be used as a fuel tank with variable results. No-one mentioned steel plate or blown glass. Both would provide very good results from the perspective of chemical stability & leakage but may suffer a tad when weight and flexibility are added to the equation.

 

 

[Guest Escadrille]

Tomo, Try this site for some examples of poly fuel tanks that could be used in your Solitaire. http://www.biasboating.com.au/category_s/184.htm?searching=Y&sort=2&cat=184&show=10&page=2

 

Seriously these types tanks have been used in many ultralight aircraft with success.

 

Cheers,

 

Andy

 

 

[Sloper]

Did you see my pics of the fuel cell setup in the Couger?

 

regards Bruce

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I want to make some new tanks for my Savannah I am over the fuel leaks I have had in a couple of tanks they are a plastic style of tank. I had planned to make the mold and use kelvar/carbon aramid to make the tanks but a freind came over the other day and asked if I had considered aluminium tanks. I hadnt due to weight but really my tanks do have a bit of weight in them now so a question for the gurus here. What thickness of sheet would I make the tanks from and also any special type of aluminium to be used...? The tanks will hold around 35 to 38 litres each to make them is not hard and I have access to a fantastic tig welder guy who owes me mega favours so the welding is taken care of.

 

 

[metalman]

The RV tanks are riveted aluminium, 35 thou I think, there's a product that comes in the kit for sealing the seams which works well, I'm considering new tanks for my Kitfox type in the future and I'm really considering the RV method for lightness and repairability

 

 

[eightyknots]

The RV tanks are riveted aluminium, 35 thou I think, there's a product that comes in the kit for sealing the seams which works well, I'm considering new tanks for my Kitfox type in the future and I'm really considering the RV method for lightness and repairability

I think that thickness is only slightly thicker than the thickness of a Coke can. That should be pretty light.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

35 thou is just under 1 mm so maybe .9 mm that would make the tanks reasonable in weight. I wouldn't rivet and seal it with pro seal I will make the base and sides in the one sheet then fold it and tig the 4 vertical seams then make the top and tig it on. What about grade of aluminium? Just normal or do you think it needs to be 6061 or just a std marine grade 5000 series maybe

 

 

[rgmwa]

35 thou is just under 1 mm so maybe .9 mm that would make the tanks reasonable in weight. I wouldn't rivet and seal it with pro seal I will make the base and sides in the one sheet then fold it and tig the 4 vertical seams then make the top and tig it on. What about grade of aluminium? Just normal or do you think it needs to be 6061 or just a std marine grade 5000 series maybe

You may find this link to the plans for the RV12 fuel tank useful as an example, although I assume your installation will have different requirements. The tank goes in the cabin behind the passenger seat and is made from 0.032" 2043-T3 Alclad, riveted and Pro-sealed. Note the internal baffles.

 

http://vansaircraft.com/pdf/revisions/RV-12/Section_37.pdf

 

rgmwa

 

 

[AVOCET]

I think that thickness is only slightly thicker than the thickness of a Coke can. That should be pretty light.

Coke can is .010 thou on the knocker , I've used it for shimming jobs , handy stuff ,

 

I've also just sloshed fibre glass tanks with a product called "BILL HERSCH"

 

" gas tank sealer" , it's tested with ethanol , & alcohol at 80% for two years , a place in Sydney sells it , don't know about 2 stroke though.

 

I got 4quarts on e bay for $ 123.90

 

Google " fuel tank sealer , for the specs

 

Cheers Mike

 

 

[turboplanner]

FRP - Fibreglass Reinforced plastic weight for weight is stronger than alumiunium, so from a purely structural point of view you can make a much stronger tank from FRP.

 

Laminated and assembled correctly it doesn't leak - millions of boats are testament to that.

 

The trouble spot in fuel tanks, assuming correct resin, correct mat and correct laminating process (which is a skill which eliminates air bubbles/leak paths) is usually the fuel tap, breather and fuel fuller fittings. This shouldn't normally be a problem since FRP shrinks around a spigot. Where there are leaks, usually the spigot has not been grooved enough for a mating, or the laminate around the spigot is not heavy enough. So it's all a matter of skill and attention to detail, where it's best done by a skilled laminator.

 

The aluminium thicknesses quoted here scare the hell out of me; while a wall thickness under 1 mm might well hold fuel for taxying to aerobatics without bursting, it's worth think through what your life is worth if you have a forced landing with tress around.

 

A heavy rail wagon shunt is up to 9 G, so in that condition the force of 38 litres of fuel grows to 342 kg, and in a collision you can calculate your own G force, but a 20 g impact makes the fuel weigh 760 kg - will the mount welds tear out at that weight? will the side burst. Just because someone else uses material a little heavier than a coke can, doesn't mean the risk has been assessed, or your design will work.

 

The thinner the aluminium, the more likely the flex and it's result - cracking, so I would be consulting an aluminium company for their opinion on strength vs crack resistance.

 

Of all the places on an aircraft this is not the one to try to save weight.

 

There's some detail on the ADR17 drop test from 9 metres above to give you an idea of forces .

 

 

[metalman]

Vans aircraft have been doing their tanks in .032 for years with no more problems than any other aircraft, no cracks , no more flexing than the rest of the structure. The bottom line is aside from using bladders no fuel tank is going to handle impacting trees at upwards of 150 kmh( in motor vehicle terms) not even when fitted into cars and built out of steel . The best product for tanks is plastic, part from puncture damage I've seen heaps of them squashed and smashed into all kinds of shapes through accidents without bursting, problem for us is finding a shape that suits usually the limited spaces we have for fuel.

 

I built the extra wing tanks for my plane out of 1.2 alloy ( nothing exotic, just the standard crap all the suppliers carry for general fabrication ) they hold 15l each , have a single baffle longitudinally, and as I set them up to cross feed from the mains they only have a breather and a drain, works well . The reason I'd redo my tanks is to bring it back to one large tank per wing , and for aesthetics the welded tanks have the normal buckling that welding thin alloy produces, my plane being rag n tube you can see it all under the wing fabric. Doing the tanks with rivets and sealing the joins will produce a much tidier finish , good enough for my RV6 ,good enough for my SkyWolf

 

 

[turboplanner]

Why don't you weld up a cube to take say 40 litres, fill it with water, and do the drop test from 9 metres. When you found a thickness that passed that test, you'd probably do a good business in aircraft tanks.

 

What Vans have been doing is up to them, it doesn't guarantee the safety of others, and you can't just walk away and say "it isn't going to happen to me".

 

A forced landing in a rough paddock with a touchdown at 60 knots is 110 km, but it's more likely that you will hit something after some roll on the ground. 50 knots is the equivalent of 90 km/hr. That makes the 9 metre drop test reasonably in the ballpark.

 

This is the equivalent of the $200.00 vs $1,000.00 helmet argument - depends what your head's worth.

 

 

[turboplanner]

JabiruPhil just gave my post #18 a funny, and he's right, it does contradict post #42.

 

The difference is gel coat. Most people who home build tanks don't bother with gel coat (#18), but for liquid proofing a gel coat which is a slightly different resin provides a barrier between the fibres and the exterior/interior. I've seen gel coat mixed with graphite in a semi tanker to ensure a static electricity grounding point, and other materials have been pointed out above.

 

 

[metalman]

Why don't you weld up a cube to take say 40 litres, fill it with water, and do the drop test from 9 metres. When you found a thickness that passed that test, you'd probably do a good business in aircraft tanks.What Vans have been doing is up to them, it doesn't guarantee the safety of others, and you can't just walk away and say "it isn't going to happen to me".

 

A forced landing in a rough paddock with a touchdown at 60 knots is 110 km, but it's more likely that you will hit something after some roll on the ground. 50 knots is the equivalent of 90 km/hr. That makes the 9 metre drop test reasonably in the ballpark.

 

This is the equivalent of the $200.00 vs $1,000.00 helmet argument - depends what your head's worth.

Really, so the biggest ,most successful kit manufacturer in the world thinks its a pretty good way to carry fuel on an aircraft, along with Piper,Cessna, and countless other aircraft manufacturers ,but we should build something regardless of weight cause the NCP says that's how it should be done in a truck, sorry mate but I'll copy the experts!

 

 

[Yenn]

There is no comparison with a cube shaped tank and the rounded tanks used by vans and others.

 

The shape of the tank provides more strength than just increasing the thickness of a cube, plus there are ribs and baffles built into tanks to strengthen and reduce surge.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Well the recent tragedy in Lismore on the RV test flight proves their tank may need some looking into as that is what split and burnt only the centre section of the aircraft....now I am thinking about going back to Kevlar and the extra workk

 

 

[turboplanner]

Really, so the biggest ,most successful kit manufacturer in the world thinks its a pretty good way to carry fuel on an aircraft, along with Piper,Cessna, and countless other aircraft manufacturers ,but we should build something regardless of weight cause the NCP says that's how it should be done in a truck, sorry mate but I'll copy the experts!

Refer post #48

 

 

[eightyknots]

Well the recent tragedy in Lismore on the RV test flight proves their tank may need some looking into as that is what split and burnt only the centre section of the aircraft....now I am thinking about going back to Kevlar and the extra workk

Why are wanting to replace the standard Savannah tanks, Mark. Are they too heavy??