Brumby 610 flight

[stevron]

Phil , from Brumby said my Lycoming powered 610 has a cruise speed of 115 knots and it's well balanced.

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

.............................................Maj...

[Guernsey]

Phil , from Brumby said my Lycoming powered 610 has a cruise speed of 115 knots and it's well balanced.

Wish I could be fitted with a Lycoming.

 

Alan.

 

 

[skeptic36]

Wish I could be fitted with a Lycoming.Alan.

Anythings possible with a jar of Vaseline ;-)

 

 

[Deskpilot]

Anythings possible with a jar of Vaseline ;-)

Oh the pain, the pain.

 

 

[Guernsey]

Anythings possible with a jar of Vaseline ;-)

Yes Vaseline is good and was sometimes used to facilitate start up when doing night operations in bed however on this particular night when I reached for the jar in the dark it proved to be extremely painfull for pilot and passenger as I had mistakenly grabbed the jar of VICK.

 

Name suppressed.

 

 

[kiwicrusader]

Vaseline I find is very useful for night time extra curricular activities........ I put it on the door knob so the kids can't get in!

 

 

[poteroo]

Phil , from Brumby said my Lycoming powered 610 has a cruise speed of 115 knots and it's well balanced.

I spent Friday 10th at Cowra, and got to fly both the Rotax and Lycoming versions of the 610.

 

The Lycoming 610 is a considerable step up from the Rotax - in acceleration, rate of climb and top speed. With 2400 rpm @ 3000ft amsl - the IAS was looking well above 110, but to be honest, I was more interested in the aircrafts' handling qualities and its' suitability as a trainer. The engine is still new, probably a bit stiff, and should perform even better after a few more hrs. The no flaps take-off was sporty - reckon about 150m or less ground run - but it was even better with full flaps, where we were off in 50-75m or so. Now, I tried this a couple times to check a 'student' touch & go - and there's just no need for the flaps to be touched in this exercise - until you're 200 ft or so. So it may be that a short field t/o on soft going might be a full flap job - will wait & see what the test flying reports tho. This is just my 1st impression.

 

With the aircraft we flew, the Lycoming was turning a fixed pitch McCaulay straight off a Cessna 152. The final version will probably have a GA Sensenich composite propellor to keep the weight lower at the front end.

 

I flew RHS, and from an instructing view - it's an easy and comfortable ship to use. Very stable, and sets up and holds it's trim really well.

 

Lots of pluss's and very few minus's.

 

I'll go through the notes that I made when I've dealt with the last weeks paperwork on my desk.

 

happy days,

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

This is a company with a bright future. If they had shares I'd be buying heaps !. They already turn out a great product, are looking at several engine types to find what is best for their aircraft, listen closely to their supporters and customers....., and go the extra mile to design genuine quality into their product. No smoke and mirrors here folks !... This is an Aussie product we can be proud of, and one that customers in other countrys will appreciate also......................................................................Maj...

 

 

[planedriver]

For those that may not have alredy seen it, theres a good video on youtube about the Brumby 600 and 610 series https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RpjwR8AqsU0.

 

I often wondered what happened to the Goair trainer which looked a very promising aircraft. Now I know.

 

Both models look great.

 

Also this one on the 610

 

 

 

[andrew1975]

Very interesting thread, well it's great to hear the lycombing is performing well, There has been much anticipation about the 610 with this new engine.

 

I can't wait to have a fly and see the difference, most of the time I'm good for 110 knots with the rotaxs so I'd expect at least 115 with the bigger engine.

 

I flew from Bendigo to Port Maquarie a few weeks ago with a ripper of a tail wind, averaged just under 140knts, at Port Maquarie I encounter some GA boys who looked down at their noses at me an d said " oh your In the ultralight"... I just said, "yeah she goes ok, 140knts, 4 and a bit hours from Bendigo, 20 litres an hour mogas..."

 

Didn't mention the tail wind, but hey, us "toy" aviators need to get a bit of respect...

 

 

[poteroo]

Very interesting thread, well it's great to hear the lycombing is performing well, There has been much anticipation about the 610 with this new engine.I can't wait to have a fly and see the difference, most of the time I'm good for 110 knots with the rotaxs so I'd expect at least 115 with the bigger engine.

I flew from Bendigo to Port Maquarie a few weeks ago with a ripper of a tail wind, averaged just under 140knts, at Port Maquarie I encounter some GA boys who looked down at their noses at me an d said " oh your In the ultralight"... I just said, "yeah she goes ok, 140knts, 4 and a bit hours from Bendigo, 20 litres an hour mogas..."

 

Didn't mention the tail wind, but hey, us "toy" aviators need to get a bit of respect...

With the 6.00 main wheels and no wheel spats, I think we have a compromise situation. Rolls over rough grass surface very well, and suits a flying schools' regular student pre-flight inspections - but a bit less top speed. I think the other compromise will be with the propellor - a GA type would suit the flying school where climb rate in the circuit can be limiting, and for longer flights it could be coarsened a tweak. We may see faster cruise speeds with the Lycoming 0-233, but there will be a cost in fuel burn rate. If it's similar to the 0-235-L2C in a C152, it might be closer to 22-24 LPH, (Rotax 18),and this will more than offset 5kts extra speed. I think the 'advantage' may be notional insofar as speeds, but expect the Lycoming to go its' 2400 TBO. However, it was very nice behind a new Lycoming!!

 

happy days,

 

 

[planedriver]

Very interesting thread, well it's great to hear the lycombing is performing well, There has been much anticipation about the 610 with this new engine.I can't wait to have a fly and see the difference, most of the time I'm good for 110 knots with the rotaxs so I'd expect at least 115 with the bigger engine.

I flew from Bendigo to Port Maquarie a few weeks ago with a ripper of a tail wind, averaged just under 140knts, at Port Maquarie I encounter some GA boys who looked down at their noses at me an d said " oh your In the ultralight"... I just said, "yeah she goes ok, 140knts, 4 and a bit hours from Bendigo, 20 litres an hour mogas..."

 

Didn't mention the tail wind, but hey, us "toy" aviators need to get a bit of respect...

Just love the last comment Well done Andrew, Good stuff!

 

Just don't tell em about your trip back.

 

 

[andrew1975]

Trip back was very good if you can hold the bladder and appreciate the scenery....

 

 

[andrew1975]

Hey poteroo,

 

Glad you liked it, did you see mine in the hanger while you are there?

 

What flying school are you shopping for? I'm sure it will be a hit!

 

 

[planedriver]

Trip back was very good if you can hold the bladder and appreciate the scenery....

and the Orchy bottle at the same time, you just smile, smile, smile, as the miles go go by.

 

After all, its most unlikely that anyone is peering in through the windows

 

 

[poteroo]

Hey poteroo,Glad you liked it, did you see mine in the hanger while you are there?

What flying school are you shopping for? I'm sure it will be a hit!

Which colour / rego was yours? We used the Cowra Aero Club 610 with the Rotax, and the other was the factory Lycoming unit. Didn't bother recording rego's as I wasn't flying PIC. The low door sill access, combined with the liftup door, makes it very easy access for larger people, and the less supple. For a flying school - that's really important. Again, I like that Lycoming up front - in 49 years, they've never failed me, but 3 Jabs and 3 Contis have. We're in Albany WA, and the big question is more - do we place it in GA or RAAus? Demand is about 50:50.

 

happy days,

 

 

[andrew1975]

Hi poteroo,

 

Mine is the blue and white one, it was probably in the hanger. So you wouldn't have seen it I'm guessing. It will be good to see one of these aust built planes in the west, Albany is a lovely spot. The great thing about this aircraft is that they really are a GA build but can have the less RAA costs. Tough discussion re which way to registrar it for your flying school. If you went GA, it would mean that from a student point of view, they can train in a new GA aircraft and get a ppl cheaper than having to learn in a new 300000 dollar 172. ( training in a 172 at a flying school i was talking to recently cost $325 / hour!)Might make ppl more affordable to those that need to fly into Perth airspace. Maybe just buy 2 aircraft, that way if a student gets a ppl, they can still do a quick raa cert and can cross hire the raa plane and still go into controlled space. Depends on projected demand at the flying club I guess, and got to crawl before you walk, but 2 is still cheaper than one new Cessna !

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

I'm guessing you're talking about taildraggers that can be used as trainers, right? Because the Hornets that Ole Hartman and his team builds that I've seen, look pretty damn good.

 

 

 

[poteroo]

Hi poteroo,Mine is the blue and white one, it was probably in the hanger. So you wouldn't have seen it I'm guessing. It will be good to see one of these aust built planes in the west, Albany is a lovely spot. The great thing about this aircraft is that they really are a GA build but can have the less RAA costs. Tough discussion re which way to registrar it for your flying school. If you went GA, it would mean that from a student point of view, they can train in a new GA aircraft and get a ppl cheaper than having to learn in a new 300000 dollar 172. ( training in a 172 at a flying school i was talking to recently cost $325 / hour!)Might make ppl more affordable to those that need to fly into Perth airspace. Maybe just buy 2 aircraft, that way if a student gets a ppl, they can still do a quick raa cert and can cross hire the raa plane and still go into controlled space. Depends on projected demand at the flying club I guess, and got to crawl before you walk, but 2 is still cheaper than one new Cessna !

The more logical thing would be for our regulators to make the sensible decision to allow for the dual registration of factory built LSA aircraft which can be also registered into GA - with the proviso that they are LAME maintained to either Schedule 5 or manufacturers specs. Would make a lot of sense and provide real incentive for flying schools, especially those which are GA+RAA, to re-equip with new aircraft using certified components. One of the big issues is that most of the great 'glass' instrumentation,(eg, Dynon), is not TSO'd. I believe that if we want to encourage innovation in aviation, we need the regulators to lighten up and consider the very real safety case in favour of new aircraft, fitted with state of the art gear and running more reliable engines.

 

happy days,

 

 

[andrew1975]

Poteroo, I agree. Or perhaps the regulators could have a controlled traffic endorsement for raa pilots and planes... Still if you bought two maybe the Brumby boys might cut you a deal. In regard to tail wheelers, I remember a guy telling me they are for pilots who think they can fly better than they actually can! My old man flipped one in a salt lake in WA. Pilot and passenger all ok but plane was a wreak. Still come to think about it, I get nervous when he is driving a car!

 

 

[stevron]

I spent Friday 10th at Cowra, and got to fly both the Rotax and Lycoming versions of the 610. The Lycoming 610 is a considerable step up from the Rotax - in acceleration, rate of climb and top speed. With 2400 rpm @ 3000ft amsl - the IAS was looking well above 110, but to be honest, I was more interested in the aircrafts' handling qualities and its' suitability as a trainer. The engine is still new, probably a bit stiff, and should perform even better after a few more hrs. The no flaps take-off was sporty - reckon about 150m or less ground run - but it was even better with full flaps, where we were off in 50-75m or so. Now, I tried this a couple times to check a 'student' touch & go - and there's just no need for the flaps to be touched in this exercise - until you're 200 ft or so. So it may be that a short field t/o on soft going might be a full flap job - will wait & see what the test flying reports tho. This is just my 1st impression.

With the aircraft we flew, the Lycoming was turning a fixed pitch McCaulay straight off a Cessna 152. The final version will probably have a GA Sensenich composite propellor to keep the weight lower at the front end.

 

I flew RHS, and from an instructing view - it's an easy and comfortable ship to use. Very stable, and sets up and holds it's trim really well.

 

Lots of pluss's and very few minus's.

 

I'll go through the notes that I made when I've dealt with the last weeks paperwork on my desk.

 

happy days,

It looks like my plane (the lycoming powered 610) is being used as a demo unit for the Brumby factory, I glad that you enjoyed my air craft. I have not had the pleasure of flying my plane yet, but look forward to next week when it's my turn.

 

 

[stevron]

Hi poteroo,Mine is the blue and white one, it was probably in the hanger. So you wouldn't have seen it I'm guessing. It will be good to see one of these aust built planes in the west, Albany is a lovely spot. The great thing about this aircraft is that they really are a GA build but can have the less RAA costs. Tough discussion re which way to registrar it for your flying school. If you went GA, it would mean that from a student point of view, they can train in a new GA aircraft and get a ppl cheaper than having to learn in a new 300000 dollar 172. ( training in a 172 at a flying school i was talking to recently cost $325 / hour!)Might make ppl more affordable to those that need to fly into Perth airspace. Maybe just buy 2 aircraft, that way if a student gets a ppl, they can still do a quick raa cert and can cross hire the raa plane and still go into controlled space. Depends on projected demand at the flying club I guess, and got to crawl before you walk, but 2 is still cheaper than one new Cessna !

How's the holiday? I am going to Cowra this week to pick up my plane. I see it's been flown and evaluated by someone . I guess they (Brumby) are excited to get this one finished, so they can have it demo ed to a select few. It will be good to get my hands on it as I have invested time and money for that moment. By the way I hope the weather is kind to me this week, so I can pick it up.

 

How far have you got on your holiday. Are you there yet. Lol. Regards steve

 

 

[poteroo]

It looks like my plane (the lycoming powered 610) is being used as a demo unit for the Brumby factory, I glad that you enjoyed my air craft. I have not had the pleasure of flying my plane yet, but look forward to next week when it's my turn.

Mate, I do hope you enjoy your aircraft. I should never have posted anything about flying it - though it was many hours short of an evaluation. I can assure you that it was in very safe hands. However, what's done - is done, and it's up to you and Phil to sort out any 'difficulties' poteroo

 

 

[andrew1975]

Hi Steve,

 

Glad to hear your getting it soon. I looking forward to a fly in it myself when your in Bendigo sometime.

 

I wouldn't worry one bit if Brumby are flying it and showing a potential customer some circuits. If there is one thing those guys are very thorough on its putting a freshly built aircraft throu it's pacers and making it safe. To their credit they won't appoligise for any delay in this part of the build process. In the John Deere header factory in the US, once they build a new harvester, they take it to a concrete slab, run it for 30 minutes, then go around and pick up all the nuts and bolts that have rattled loose and replace them. Not the kind of thing you can do with an aircraft! Or at least not from one I want to fly!

 

When your there in the factory, have a talk to Dave, he is a CFI who works for them, he is a geniuse at setting up the trim so the plane just sits in the air and flys hands free. The trimming process does take time, fly adjust, fly adjust etc. When I was first getting mine I wanted it in my hanger as soon as it looked like a finished aircraft, however when I flew it home and was at 8000 feet and flying around a really nasty thunderstorm, I was kinda glad they had tightened all the bolts so to speak!

 

Andrew.