A near miss?

[Wayne T Mathews]

Just had a phone call from Old Koreelah. He's up in Darwin playing with motorbikes and having a beer or twleve with his mates. He's asked me to post the attached email he sent me, 'cause he can't do it from his iphone... So here goes, let's see if I can do it.

 

 

(the following is inserted by Ian as Admin...For those that may not be able to access MS Word Docs here is the attachment:)

 

Wayne I looked up from my beer a few minutes ago to see this:

 

Can't seem to post it to the Rec Flying forum from my iPhone. Perhaps you could post it for Old Koreelah.

 

 

Lyle\'s darwin photo 12 AUG 12.doc

 

Lyle\'s darwin photo 12 AUG 12.doc

 

Lyle\'s darwin photo 12 AUG 12.doc

[turboplanner]

Obviously Lyle's not used to Darwin Stubbies.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

epic thread

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Just happened to look up to watch a contrail going east over Darwin and then my drinking partner noticed another on a conflicting heading. Was lucky to catch it with the iPhone. Bloody close!

 

When everyone is on GPS, vertical separation is important!

 

 

[Ultralights]

I am pretty certain there is at a minimum 1000 ft vertical separation, but from that photo, it could near 5000 or more.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

When everyone is on GPS, vertical separation is important!

You better believe it! When VFR OCTA, I always make a habit of flying a 1nm offset to right.

 

 

[facthunter]

Vertical separation up there is 1,000' (with 2,000' if over LVL310 if no operating autopilot). ( unless recently changed). I have always advocated avoiding tracking over aerodromes that aircraft are climbing and descending into and flying track offsett must reduce the nose to nose situation that the precise tracking causes. GPS tracking is extremely accurate, and it is hard to see a plane that is coming straight at you. IFR requires that you maintain a track within specified tolerances unless cleared to do otherwise. Nev

 

 

[Guernsey]

They look about the same size so their seperation would be about 20 feet.

 

Alan.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

You better believe it! When VFR OCTA, I always make a habit of flying a 1nm offset to right.

What if the approaching aircraft has the same policy?

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

What if the approaching aircraft has the same policy?

Then you'll be two miles apart!

When I first started using GPS OCTA, all too often I found myself in the same airspace as another aircraft and on a couple of occasions on a different frequency!

 

 

[Admin]

Mr Hughes, have you had any separation scares...I know your flying is all under ATC control but just curious if you have?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Then you'll be two miles apart! When I first started using GPS OCTA, all too often I found myself in the same airspace as another aircraft and on a couple of occasions on a different frequency!

My autopilot has an "feature" where you can specify an offset. They make the claim in their documentation (USA manufacture) that in busy airspace GPS tracking is a recipe for trouble. That said, Howard Hughes advocates 1nm to the right, which in my case when up against Howard would suggest Im not get to get hit from the front....just from behind. I think my 120Kts is fast, but I suspect its pretty slow in a B350.

 

I gotta say though, away from the coast.....its rare to see another plane between airports. The longest trip I did was Tully to Gawler and I saw one other aircarft the whole time..he was doing circuits at Nocundra in FWQ...as you do.

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

That said, Howard Hughes advocates 1nm to the right, which in my case when up against Howard would suggest Im not get to get hit from the front....just from behind. I think my 120Kts is fast, but I suspect its pretty slow in a B350.Andy

Still 130 knots closing from behind, still gives me more chance to see you than 370 knots closing head on!

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Mr Hughes, have you had any separation scares...I know your flying is all under ATC control but just curious if you have?

Once we go OCTA we are at the mercy of (for want of a better term) 'idiots', just like everyone else! Luckily in 29 years of flying they have been few and far between.

 

 

[poteroo]

You don't have to be OCTA to have close 'uns. Back in the late 70's I was in a 180 en route Moora to Perth's primary airport, 1500 ft, when radar said we have unidentified traffic in your 11 o'clock.......and sure enough, a Pawnee skimmed by, underneath me, and disappeared westwards. I knew who it was immediately,but suffered a memory lapse by reaching Perth. Another occasion in the 90's I was tracking Beverley to Rotto, via Gosnels Quarry at 4500 in CTA - to have another radar warning and a C172 skimmed past under me as he cut the corner of the CTZ - they never got him either, but I did - at a later BFR!! Just shows you can't stop scanning anywhere.

 

It might surprise some, (but probably not Nev or HH), that we used to fly pretty accurately VFR - just using the ADF for assistance. I passed directly under a 310 once - us tracking Marble Bar to Broome @ 7500 and he the opposite way at 8500. We passed directly under him somewhere out in the desert, and exactly where FS had advised.

 

happy days,

 

 

[rgmwa]

When I first started using GPS OCTA, all too often I found myself in the same airspace as another aircraft and on a couple of occasions on a different frequency!

That's why I prefer to use the traditional map, compass and clock for navigation. I have no problems with accuracy that way - I don't know where I am, and nobody else does either.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[facthunter]

Keep a good lookout and try to avoid areas where traffic is likely to be more active. The difference betweeen a near miss and a hit isn't much. you might think it's a big empty sky, but we do aim at each other at times. ( OLike near airports where traffic converges and descends/climbs.. Nev

 

 

[Tomo]

GPS track, Who's he?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Still 130 knots closing from behind, still gives me more chance to see you than 370 knots closing head on!

True, and I wasnt advocating it was bad.....just that as the frontee there isnt much I can do about it other than hope the rearee is looking out rather than head inside as though still IFR.

 

With the Air Ambulance do you get to travel all over NSW or mainly along the coast? When I lived in SA I seemed to recall that Broken Hill and surrounds were handled by SA Health rather than NSW so pressumably the transfers there go south.

 

Has anyone ever seen a plot of all movements in a day that are below FL10 I'd be interested as to how many flight planned aircraft we are up against outside airport locale and training areas I suspect its precious few. I know collisions occur but I cant help wondering if youve a better chance of winning the lottery than collecting someone else away from the choke points where we all sit up and take notice. I also know that safety considerations mean we are to be ever vigilant and that discussions that take away from that probably arent the right thing to do.....

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Hi Andy,

 

Our area goes as far west as Walgett, Lightning Ridge, Lake Cargellico and Cobar, North to Brisbane and South to Melbourne, with Lord Howe Island being the limit in the East. For the most part RFDS at Broken Hill do the Western NSW area and into SA up to Moomba, although we do occasional (becoming more regular) trips to Broken Hill and Adelaide. RFDS out of Adelaide go as far north as Tennant Creek and out to Ceduna, they also venture into Western Victoria on occasions as well. While there are boundaries sometimes it comes down to who has resources available at the time and where the receiving hospital is located.

 

Cheers,

 

Mark.

 

 

[Mick]

GPS track, Who's he?

I seem to cross him numerous times on every X-Country I do. Never hang around for long though, just bump into him then off I goes on my merry way again!

 

 

[Ultralights]

Even though I use the gps i just use the arrow to let me know the general direction I should be going, as at 85 kts, you get plenty of time to do the "what's over here, wow, that look nice, I'll go over here, are they emus down there? Type of meandering track in the general direction of the gps line.

 

 

[Tomo]

Here's an RFDS PC12 coming into Pt Augusta the other day when I was there.

 

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Here's an RFDS PC12 coming into Pt Augusta the other day when I was there.

That's scary where are they hiding the other engine?

 

 

[damkia]

Here's an RFDS PC12 coming into Pt Augusta the other day when I was there.

That is one sight I really like to see.

OHS Advisor/Medic for a mine. I have had to call up a few of times in the last 18 months....(Lawn Hill QLD x 2 and Laverton WA x 1). Hats off to you guys.