Which transponder?

[Downunder]

Looking at a transponder for a Dynon Skyview. There are two types.

 

The class 1 & 2. http://dynonavionics.com/docs/SkyView_XPNDR-26X.html

 

I have been advised to go to the Class 1 ( 261) but as I'm well under 175 knots, in there any real need?

 

To be honest, I don't really understand alot of the data there. As the class 1 is $400 or so more than the class 2, is there anything special about it.

 

My cruse is under 100K.

 

 

[rgmwa]

The transponder that Vans supplies as standard with the Skyview avionics kit for the RV-12 is the higher performance 261. The RV-12 is a 120kt aircraft, so you would think the 262 would be OK, but if Vans thinks the 261 is preferable they must have a good reason. The 261 has higher transmitter output than the 262, so that might be why they chose it. Maybe one of the electronics experts can comment.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

This is a good subject Downunder and not only for the Dynon. I have heard some whispering that there maybe a push that if you want to fly over 5000 ft there may be a need to have a transponder fitted. To this end I have been doing some hunting around and to be honest there is a good amount of info out there ...maybe a little too much which is why it is confusing. I am no expert in this field I understand the hardware of course but pouring through the info that pertains to our operations in Australia can be a little confusing. Most of these transponders go from 1500 up to many many thousands of bucks. The average seems to be around $2000. I haven't finished looking around yet so haven't come up with what I would put into my aircraft. I did see a tiny one from a company at Oskosh this year its tiny and full power but doesn't look like it is released to general aviation yet only the UAV market they have also a adsb receiver system as well and this is where things differ between here and the USA. I dont believe we have the Notam/weather system here but the other parts we do. Is there any of the avionics gurus out there that can explain the best options for here in OZ and also if and when we will get these extra features

 

http://www.sagetechcorp.com/general-aviation-solutions/clarity-ads-b.cfm#.UDBhnEJR6ts

 

http://www.sagetechcorp.com/unmanned-solutions/#.UDBhvkJR6ts

 

Mark

 

 

[Yenn]

I am not sure what the current and future requirements are, but you definitely need a transponder to fly in Class E airspace. Class E for a lot of the East coaast area is 8500' and above, so not having a transponder knocks out the 2 highest levels we have for RAAus. You can buy a cheap transponder from Mendelsson, but they could not tell me if it was legal for Australia.

 

I think we will need Mode S in the future to accomodate ADSB and already need it in some places.

 

I would like to seem if anyone can come up with an easy to understandreview of what is usable and acceptable.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Mode C Transponde

 

 

 

 

 

 

r – Small, high reliability solution for Mode A and Mode C requirements

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mode S Transponder with ADS-B Out

 

 

 

 

 

 

– Meet the 2020 ADS-B requirements today

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Mode S Transponder with ADS-B In/Ou

 

 

 

 

 

 

t – Receive other aircraft’s ADS-B data, increasing your situational awareness

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Well these are the 3 versions that the UAV mob are selling and one would think that by 2020 this will be a world wide requirement I would expect..... and Australia would be the same so the middle one would be the most featured one we would require the other last one would be for full blown commercial traffic I would think

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

The following proposals published in a Notice of Proposed Rule Making NPRM 1105AS in late January 12 affecting VFR and IFR aircraft will become mandates in the next 2-3 months:.

 

VFR AIRCRAFT - Timeline

 

1. 04 February 2016 - Transponder carriage (either Mode S or A/C) aircraft operating in Class D airspace will apply (exemptions apply to aircraft that cannot power a transponder.)

 

2. 01 January 2020 - ADS-B OUT carriage all aircraft operating Airspace Classes A, B, C, D, E airspace from (exemptions may apply in Class D and Class E to aircraft that cannot power ADS-B equipment); no requirement in Class G; similar to FAA year 2020 rule.

 

Found this on the http://www.pacificavionics.com.au/ads-b.html website

 

 

[Guest nunans]

Do transponders fitted to RA registered aircraft need to be certified units?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I believe all transponders MUST be TSO'd

 

 

[sfGnome]

The transponder that Vans supplies as standard with the Skyview avionics kit for the RV-12 is the higher performance 261. The RV-12 is a 120kt aircraft, so you would think the 262 would be OK, but if Vans thinks the 261 is preferable they must have a good reason. The 261 has higher transmitter output than the 262, so that might be why they chose it. Maybe one of the electronics experts can comment.rgmwa

Van's reason for supplying the higher power is probably as noted in this Dynon comment; "Currently the FAA ADS-B requirements specify the higher power Class 1 transponder. For U.S. customers, we recommend only the Class 1 SV-XPNDR-261." Doesn't answer the original question for Australia though...

 

 

[Guest nunans]

I believe all transponders MUST be TSO'd

Ok, do they also need to be re-tested periodically?

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

If they are all TSO'd which I suspect they are ...the units would need to be tested especially for the altitude encoder requirements and also frequency accuracy for the transmitters

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Its been some time since I looked but I seem to recall that ADSB world over isnt always the same thing. So, no matter what you do make sure its Ok in Australia. I seem to recall that on the microair (www.microair.com.au ) website there were some white papers on teh Australian iteration of ADSB and what they had to do to their box to make it work..... still not sure if they have done that yet in the latest model variant.

 

Search on this site for ADSB and discussions in 2008-10 I recall that there was a fair bit of detail and links to various things which may still exist today.

 

No matter what you choose there is a need to have the pitot systems and attached instruments checked and calibrated if necessary every 2 years. The transponder pressure encode is connected to the pitot static system and as such the encoder needs to be checked as well. Technically the transponder system cannot be operated if it hasnt had a LAME check within 2 yrs (which will be signed off in your aircraft log book) . As I have said previously, cheap chinese instruments can create grief downtrack for you in that they are lucky if they last to down track and secondly if they are out of calibration its quite conceivable that teh LAME will refuse to calibrate these as there is no maintenance manual or parts list and therefore no approved way of calibrating to a known standard. Im on my 3rd cheapy across 2 aircraft (2nd hand both came with chinees altimeter fitted) there will not be a fourth!!

 

Andy

 

 

[rgmwa]

Ok, do they also need to be re-tested periodically?

Every 2 years I believe.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

I seem to recall that ADSB world over isnt always the same thing. So, no matter what you do make sure its Ok in Australia.....there were some white papers on teh Australian iteration of ADSB and what they had to do to their box to make it work.

Oh my, don't tell me this stupid country wants to set its own silly little local regulations again??

 

 

[rgmwa]

Van's reason for supplying the higher power is probably as noted in this Dynon comment; "Currently the FAA ADS-B requirements specify the higher power Class 1 transponder. For U.S. customers, we recommend only the Class 1 SV-XPNDR-261." Doesn't answer the original question for Australia though...

That makes sense. Hopefully it will also be OK for our ADS-B Out requirements.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[Downunder]

http://aopa.com.au/information-centre/aopa-news/2012/08/24/aopa-welcomes-new-rules-for-ads-b-mode-s-transponders-and-gnss-navigation/

 

http://www.comlaw.gov.au/Details/F2012L01739/Download

 

 

[frank marriott]

Re testing

 

See technical manual periodic inspections. Section 4.2.4 - 6 / instrumentation / sections 17 to 21

 

FrankM

 

 

[Downunder]

I decided to buy the Dynon class 1 transponder. It arrived yesterday. No cable to connect it to the skyview and no antenna or antenna cable.

 

Some electrical plug housings and a handfull of "pins".

 

Digging deep into the manual, you find none of this is supplied and your expected to make your own cable(looks like a computer serial type plug, so not just a couple of wires). None of this openly stated on the Dynon site.

 

I bought it from the aussie dealer and in the to and fro emails none of this was mentioned. I could have gone though relatives in Hawaii and payed no GST but thought I would do the right thing and go through the dealer for the support and advice......

 

Got none of either....

 

I'm not sure if I was naive or what, but for two and a half grand I was expecting everything....some sort of kit.....

 

Does anyone know of a technician in WA that can help me? Willing to pay of course. Based in Bunbury. Ideally someone with Skyview/Dynon experience.

 

Regards,

 

R J Mitchell

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I am in the process of purchasing a Trig TT21 transponder. I enquired from the company that manufactures them and was told that Mode S transponders are the same all over the world. There are variations in the implementations of what data the ground stations use/require the transponder to transmit. Here in Oz so far there are only two areas that require Mode S transponders, one is the Gold Coast and I think the other is Melbourne. However, Mode S transponders are compatible with Mode A and C.

 

The advantage (IMO) of the Trig is its size and that it has a separate cotrol box and RT unit. The control box fits in a 2-1/4" cutout and has its own altitude encoder. The RT unit can be mounted almost anywhere in the aircraft. This makes for a smaller install behind the panel. The TT21 is a class 2 transponder. They also make the TT22 which is a class 1 (higher power) unit.

 

http://www.trig-avionics.com/tt21.html

 

Looking at the Dynon unit, it appears to be the Trig RT unit without the control head.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

How much for the trig?

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Mendelsohns sell them for

 

$2395

 

http://www.ozpilot.com.au/Trig/Trig-TT21-Class-2-Mode-S-Transponder/p-171-284/

 

 

[ruffasguts]

Mendelsohns sell them for$2395

http://www.ozpilot.com.au/Trig/Trig-TT21-Class-2-Mode-S-Transponder/p-171-284/

 

 

have installed and used Trig transponder. easy install encoder incorperated in control head

 

easy calibration

 

Mick W

 

 

[kaz3g]

If they are all TSO'd which I suspect they are ...the units would need to be tested especially for the altitude encoder requirements and also frequency accuracy for the transmitters

Hi guys

 

They do need to be TSO'd and do need to be recalibrated... can't remember the interval for sure but I think it is 3 years. We are using a different ADSB to the US (of course) so be careful what you buy if you intend to be flying in 8 years time.

 

If you want a mode C now, I have a Microair in the Auster and it has performed really well.

 

kaz

 

 

[Downunder]

Hello,

 

Yes it is manufactured by Trig . A TT22 unit. I was advised to go the class 1 route due to the future ADS-B requirements by the Aus dealer.

 

I won't be happy if it is not suitable for our (ADS-B) requirements.

 

So Dynon don't actually make their own transponder ...........

 

Thanks Scott for the info about the stand alone "control box" set up.

 

 

[Gentreau]

YOu could also order the same unit from the UK at 1615 GBP which I think is a bit cheaper.

 

http://www.afeonline.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=2565