High performance aircraft?

[David Pavlich]

Tired of me yet? :cheezy grin:Anyway, I've read differing opinions about new pilots and high performance aircraft. Now, I know a Mooney is a high performance aircraft and that a beginner shouldn't be plopping down his or her aerobucks for something like this. However, what's the breakpoint? Is something like a Cirrus SR20/22 considered high performance? A Cessna 182 Turbo, Diamond DA40?

 

I would guess that there's a sort of blur between a Cessna 152 and a Mooney Ovation. Anyway, this is me being enthused that I've found a General Aviation forum that is well attended and has a lot of great information available for me to absorb. Besides, I need to get my post count up!

 

David

 

 

[rgmwa]

I think the breakpoint is the pilot, not the aircraft. New pilots and high performance aircraft are a risky mix, and what might be high performance to a C152 pilot might be very ho-hum to an aerobatic display pilot. I'm a low-time pilot with about 130 hours experience, and to me all the aircraft you listed except the C152 would be high performance, with the DA 40 maybe being closer to medium performance. I'm fine at 115 kts, but I'd probably be uncomfortable in something that flew at 160kts. The important thing is to choose a type approriate to your skill and experience. No matter what you fly, make sure you get proper training in it so you can learn to stay ahead of the aircraft.

 

rgmwa

 

 

[djpacro]

Some discussion points (my opinion only) about the rate of progression has a lot to do with funding, discipline, standard of training, scope of ongoing training, mentoring ...

 

Very easy to become overconfident with ambition exceeding ability without the right doses of these factors.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Not sure where you are at in your training, but does your school have a C172, or Warrior? A little faster and more useful than a C150, if you did your taining in one of these, it would help you prepare for more advanced aircraft later.

 

Every step up in aircraft performance can be daunting. 85-100 knots, 100-140 knots, 140-180 knots and 180-250+ knots. Each have their own individual challenges, but with the right training these challenges can be overcome, thousands have done it before. If you want to fly a higher performance aircraft (and have the funds to do so), you can always take a long a more experienced safety pilot to help you through initially.

 

PS: I would rate the Cirrus a higher performance aircraft than the Mooney and a very nice piece of kit. I drool every time I see one on the ramp!

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

High performance aircraft

 

I had reason to contact RAA oz recently re my

 

Flying certificate not having HP endorsement like my mates

 

I asked what constituted HP and they replied something like a Jab or similar

 

Seeing as I have only flown a Jab they endorsed me.

 

Make sure you get the CFI to tick the boxes when you do your next BFR

 

 

[facthunter]

HP and LP as defined by RAAus is their own way of doing it, and is more concerned with the high drag, low inertia types being covered adequately than almost any other.A six cylinder Jab powered RG Alpi 300 would be about the fastest U/L that I have flown.. The Lancair has a reputation for being a little "dicy" for inexperienced pilots. Some have a bit of a problem slowing up a C-206. Coping with the faster planes does take a while and the training has to be appropriate. If you are getting lost you are doing it a lot quicker. Nev

 

 

[mAgNeToDrOp]

If you are getting lost you are doing it a lot quicker. Nev

Ha, just ask Paul Crickmore -

 

You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3.

 

— Paul F. Crickmore, 'Lockheed SR-71: The Secret Missions Exposed,' 1993.

 

 

[Guernsey]

Ha, just ask Paul Crickmore -You've never been lost until you've been lost at Mach 3.

— Paul F. Crickmore, 'Lockheed SR-71: The Secret Missions Exposed,' 1993.

Not if he had correctly used his One In Sixty Rule.

 

Alan.

 

 

[facthunter]

That's what it's like. Sometimes it takes 25 miles of level flight, power off and speedbrake to get the first flap stage out.. Today everything is 250 below 10,000ft ( really slow) Nev

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

Not if he had correctly used his One In Sixty Rule. Alan.

For sure, the 1 in 60 rule will still work in an SR 71. But I'm guessing that at the speeds they were travelling at, it'd be a tad combersome with the decimal points about 6 places to the right, to be all that practical, or acceptable, in their operation.

 

 

 

[winsor68]

When was GPS introduced? Late 70's early 80's? Or did Skunkworks SR71 cockpits have them?

 

 

[dazza 38]

The first time I flew an RV7 was a real education, climb out faster than the cruise speed of anything I'd flown before, we arrived in the circuit at about 170 kias, and I had to lose 85knots before the base turn, after we landed I mentioned to the owner, who was mad enough to let me fly it, that I'd never really understood what being behind the aircraft meant till that day, I reckon I was about 5 miles behind the damn thing. I did get on top of it though ,Met

Yep same thing happened to me when I flew a mates RV7 with him. I found myself behind the aircraft.Great experience though.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi David.There is a guy here in Oz that bought a V tailed Bonanza before he had even one flying lesson.He found a instructor and school that taught him in his Bonanza from scratch. He had always loved Bonanzas.He didnt want to fly anything else.Since he owned the aircraft, the extra time it took him to gain his PPL (as compared to training in a less complexed aircraft) didnt faze him.

 

I read about this in a local magazine years ago.

 

 

[Hongie]

When was GPS introduced? Late 70's early 80's? Or did Skunkworks SR71 cockpits have them?

I think they used an INS inertial navigation system don... Or maybe that was the early b1? Can't remember now, when I was 10 I used to be able to quote all sorts about all the NATO acft especially

 

 

[facthunter]

You could probably do that in a Citation with the right instructor and programme. Jets are easy. OOPS ( That's supposed to be kept secret)Nev

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

I think they used an INS inertial navigation system don... Or maybe that was the early b1? Can't remember now, when I was 10 I used to be able to quote all sorts about all the NATO acft especially

VLF Omega? LORAN C maybe?

 

 

[corvairkr]

TACAN ?

 

 

[Tomo]

I love the difference of different aircraft, go for a burn in a 30kt 95:10 ultralight and then jump in a C206, C210 or something... pure bliss!

 

I know, I'm blessed to have that experience...

 

The faster the aircraft the more prepared you need to be. Have a plan at your 10 mile call as to what you will be needing to do (well, it's good to have a plan even before then, but you get the drift). Because you'll be overhead in 2 minutes! I love the challenge it gives!

 

 

[facthunter]

300 Kts in the circuit. Tomo? 250 below 10,000' Nev

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

TACAN ?

I reckon youd be changing channels pretty regularly at cruise, and as to doing triangulation calcs........by the time they were done you'd be searching for the next station. then again, perhaps the distance a tacan will work at, at 70,000ft might be a tad longer cause I expect that line of sight is pretty impressive

 

 

[Tomo]

Did I say 300kts?

 

 

[facthunter]

10 miles in 2 minutes?Nev

 

 

[Tomo]

10 miles in 2 minutes?Nev

Oh yeah... I guess that is a bit of an exaggeration... 4 minutes probably safer!

 

 

[Bandit12]

I've flown the Cirrus SR22 a couple of times.....and didn't feel that it was for a brand new pilot. In fact, I didn't really like it much so wouldn't bother again. But things do happen a lot faster at 150 knots if your brain is still going 90 knots. When I checked out in the Mooney just after getting my PPL, I just knew that I was behind it so never bothered to try one again. Funnily enough I didn't have the same problem with the C210 later.

 

Anyway, fly what makes you grin but stay ahead of it, whatever speed is showing on the ASI.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

300 Kts in the circuit. Tomo? 250 below 10,000' Nev

250 Indicated!