Hypothetical Scenario

[Admin]

You have done all your planning for a 3hr flight. You know it is going to be windy with a strong crosswind at your destination strip but within the allowed figures of your aircraft.

 

You are 10miles out from your destination and tune the radio to get the weather. You suddenly find that you will have a wind component greater then what your aircraft is approved as being able to handle.

 

What do you do?

 

Perhaps you go off to your alternate airfield however that airfield doesn't have ATIS and only a windsock to determine the wind, or do you call up ATC and ask for help, or do you ???

 

 

[motzartmerv]

For your alternate you would have had to check the TAF BEFORE nominating it as an alternate. So the forcast wind could not be over the x-wind max of the aeroplane.

 

Seeing as your in melbourne, you would probably have 20 airfields within 10 minutes flight time (unlike sydney) so you could divert to one that is more into wind..:)...

 

 

[Admin]

Motza, this is all just a hypothetical situation to start a discussion...As the opening post says, you did do all your planning and everything was ok at that time but we know how weather can change and this is a 3hr flight.

 

You say:

 

"For your alternate you would have had to check the TAF BEFORE nominating it as an alternate. So the forcast wind could not be over the x-wind max of the aeroplane."

 

so by the same token you would have checked the TAF at your destination as well but found upon arrival that it wasn't so would one assume that the Alternate could also have changed...that is one of the types of questions that is contained in the hypothetical situation.

 

Do you use what fuel you have left and risk going to your Alternate knowing that it doesn't have ATIS and could in fact be worse off then your destination airstrip has turned out to be?

 

I wonder, by way of discussion, is there a correct answer to this

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Oh ok..Well im sure the book would say to divert to an airfield more into wind, after recalculating fuel reserves etc.

 

I doubt any where you would find the answer "have a go at it anyway". So the only alternative is diverting, or, at a stretch, a prec search and landing.

 

cheers

 

 

[Admin]

Motz, your taking the fun out of it

 

Why wouldn't you ask ATC for assistance if there is any known info at other strips?

 

Or would you use your radio on the local freq and ask for assistance...if anyone responds from the ground, ask them to contact other strips for you to get the situation at other strips?

 

There is no "book" on every scenario but collectively, as a hypothetical, we can come up with different ideas on what one could do that may end up being "recalled" if the situation ever arose for someone

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Lol. Sorry mate.. Yea atc is a resource like any other. A lot of raa pilots are scared to talk to them which is silly, they are just people. Just be brief and to the point and be clear what you want to say before you push the button.

 

The situation you described would not constitute an emergency unless fuel shortage was a factor, and in your gazelle fuel shortage is always a factor ( hehe ) . If a diversion sees you invading your fixed reserve then you would let atc know this straight away and they would ask you if your declaring an emergency. And I guess it would be dependent on how far your suitable alternate was.

 

 

[facthunter]

You could ask ATC, if you are in radio range. ( HFactors is use all available assisitance). I don't see the ATIS being much of a requirement at your alternate. You could make a reasonable assumption, unless an active front has just passed through, that the wind prevailing over the sort of area you may be able to range to is fairly constant as regards direction and speed ( unless there are some peculiar local conditions applying) As Motz says go to an aerodrome that has a more into wind runway if you have enough fuel Your choice as to suitability considering the fuel and other factors affecting safety (but not convenience over safety) ie you don't risk running out of fuel to get to an aerodrome that has fuel, maintenance, a nice pub etc, if another is available closer. since this is unplanned ( hypothetically) this might be a time you eat into some of your reserves but you would not be treated well AT THE INQUIRY, if you crashed because of fuel exhaustion 1/2 mile from the aerodrome it there was a suitable paddock/road available beforehand.. Weigh up what you have going for you, and get your priorities right. Nev

 

 

[shags_j]

DTI is the first thing ATC learns to do in the sims. Don't be afraid to ask them. They may get a bit stroppy if busy with other stuff but they will answer when they can.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

I'd demonstrate my exceptional crosswind skills!

 

Nah... who am I kidding? I don't have exceptional cross wind skills, so I'd divert to the nearest 'suitable' alternate. If none are in range then precautionary landing it is!

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I had an instructor once who had this happen to him at Ballina in a Lightwing. He said he landed across the runway. That may have been an option there, but I've landed at a few fields (Noosa for one) where this would definitely NOT be on.

 

 

[David Isaac]

ATC are a great resource to use and will always help you if under stress. They helped me under identical circumstances to the hypothetical that Ian has raised many years ago and even rang ahead to get permission for me to land at Maitland (Rutherford). In my case it was the Coffs Tower controller that helped me when I was passing Coffs CTA.

 

 

[68volksy]

ATC are a great resource to use and will always help you if under stress. They helped me under identical circumstances to the hypothetical that Ian has raised many years ago and even rang ahead to get permission for me to land at Maitland (Rutherford). In my case it was the Coffs Tower controller that helped me when I was passing Coffs CTA.

ATC are a great resource indeed. One of the guys at the airport tells the story of getting caught out in the VFR into IMC conditions. He had the sense/training to flip straight over to ATC and whilst he concentrated on keeping the wings level they provided headings and altitudes to get him around/over the hills where he was and into the sunny weather again.

 

 

[Ultralights]

depends on the aircraft, Gazelle, Savannah, Thruster, just land across the stip...

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Ill bash you!!!....

 

 

[dazza 38]

I watched Nestor take off across the strip in Caloundra in his storch.Right across the 23 numbers, I know its a bit naughty but it looked cool.Besides he doesnt live in Australia anymore, so I think he is in the clear.

 

 

[Guernsey]

depends on the aircraft, Gazelle, Savannah, Thruster, just land across the stip...

In a Tyro land across the strip and stop before the centre line.

 

Alan.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yes I saw a storch land on bald hill at stanwel park once.. That aeroplane deserves it's own category.:)

 

 

[facthunter]

Half way between a plane and a parachute. Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

They (the Hornets)are a bit more robust. While Super STOL seems to appeal to some. These planes can be a bit tricky in gusty conditions with their very slow stall speed and low wing loading. ( They go together). Nev

 

 

[facthunter]

Probably not a bad choice. Doesn't need the fat wheels. What engine? Nev

 

 

[David Isaac]

Hornets would be ideal for a tug plane.

 

They certainly will get into tight spots for a pick up, but will there be enough paddock to pull the Glider off?

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

They (the Hornets)are a bit more robust. While Super STOL seems to appeal to some. These planes can be a bit tricky in gusty conditions with their very slow stall speed and low wing loading. ( They go together). Nev

I know it's a generalization, so I probably shouldn't say this, but I would suggest all high performance aircraft can be a bit tricky in gusty conditions. And both the Storch and the Hornet are high performance aircraft. They just happen to be at the wrong end of the speed spectrum...

 

 

 

[Zibi]

I think I'll just put it here:

 

 

Something I've stumbled upon yesterday.

 

 

[Admin]

That's just pure stupidity in my opinion...a competition like that is simply asking for things to go wrong

 

 

[farri]

Forgetting stupidity, The vidio clearly shows that it can be done, but it also shows that not everyones ability is the same.

 

The margine for error is so small, that the slightest mistake or an engine failure at the criticle moment,can end in disaster.

 

I was fortunate enough that one of my students purchased a Zenith 701 and it was based at my home strip for 10 years, so I got to fly it fairly regularly but on take off and landing I would only keep a nose attitude that would allow me to put it down safely if the engine had stoped at the most critical point.

 

I know that there are those that will say, " Why have a STOL aircraft, if you`re going to fly that way".

 

My answer to that is, " Everyone creates their own level of safety ".

 

Frank.