RAAus stopping membership

[fly_tornado]

fly-to. At the risk of sounding judgemental, having pondered over some of your curious postings on this forum, I believe if you were RAA President, I'd be sorely tempted to give up aviation and go back to vintage cars. Nothing personal, but just can't suss out your mainstream thinking. Surely you're taking the p!ss??

I just accept the fact that discussion of the management of the RAA is seen by many as being a greater threat to the RAA than the actual mismanagement. Keith's entitled to his opinion but I doubt you will convince him that the biggest threat to the RAA is the board not the members.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I think the whole episode proves a point... Much better communication is required.

The RAA website?

 

 

[Admin]

I have last Friday made an offer to RAAus that once Runciman, Tizzard, Middleton and Reid are no longer on the board, representative(s) of this web site are willing to sit down with the RAAus board and see how we can work together for the betterment of the recreational aviation industry. Failing this, it is possible that we may be able to look at ways in working with other more professionally run governing bodies. I believe there could be 3 entities out there looking at providing the same services as RAAus and more.

 

 

[Captain]

I have last Friday made an offer to RAAus that once Runciman, Tizzard, Middleton and Reid are no longer on the board, representative(s) of this web site is willing to sit down with the RAAus board and see how we can work together for the betterment of the recreational aviation industry. Failing this, it is possible that we may be able to look at ways in working with other more professionally run governing bodies. I believe there could bye 3 entities out there looking at providing the same services as RAAus and more.

All that has ever been asked here of the RAA for years has been improved communications with the members and it has never happened to the satisfaction of particpants here. Even the CEO has not included a report in recent magazines (probably just another "mistake").

 

Most/all of the particular issues comes back to communication and our demands for improved governance of the organisation, and actions discussed and taken through this website have just been attempts by the members to improve things.

 

I think that there is also a culture in the OMC at the RAA to shoot the messenger (this website) when they don't like the message that gets through when it occasionally does. Hence we are seen as rabble rousers and dismissed by the OMC on that basis.

 

But I don't favour the undoubted turmoil that would flow from a change of organisation controlling our sport unless it was considered as an absolute last resort, however I must admit that competition does breed improved performance.

 

I have been involved in motorsport for yonks and alternative controlling organisations have been established in both 4 wheeled and 2 wheeled motorsport when the members and participants felt that the existing body wasn't listening to, or not providing, what they want or need. CAMS were seen as cravat wearing fuddy duddies that were only interested in promoting V8 Supercars, so a more appropriate alternative was established to the satisfaction of the great unwashed masses (who mostly wore overalls).

 

It is not hard for good managers to be communicative and to provide good governance that listens to the members.

 

CONCLUSION ............ Good management is all that is needed, by both full time employees and elected Reps.

 

Regards Geoff

 

PS .... Stick your hand up if you already think RAAus is well managed, or better still go to the 2 polls I have created today and feel free to comment on any extra poll choice that should be added to each.

 

 

[Riley]

I just accept the fact that discussion of the management of the RAA is seen by many as being a greater threat to the RAA than the actual mismanagement. Keith's entitled to his opinion but I doubt you will convince him that the biggest threat to the RAA is the board not the members.

OK, I concur, ( but you had me worried for a bit) cheers Riley

 

 

[Teckair]

I like your optimism Shags, you should become a farmer!

Or a politician.

 

 

[shags_j]

I'll stick with Air Traffic Controller thanks ;)

 

 

[turboplanner]

This infighting has me concerned. ..(((( Gravely concernered)))).. We could loose R.A.Aus as we know it.What I am seeing here and it is only one side and it is from the forum members (How many fianancial R.A.Aus members).

I love to hear what some board members have to say so I can get balanced information so I can arrive at an informed view.

 

Hence I will seek out some board members and see what they have to say for themselves.

 

Steve Runciman I have to come to his defence here, he is no ordinary person he is well up the military ranks and no one gets there by being a dill. The other point the board members are volunteers not paid people and they do not need all the rot placed on them. As I said I need to have some board members views.

 

My grave concern we could loose R.A.Aus.. As I see it --- if this infighting continues CASSA will close us down and take over, because R.A.Aus operates under a charter from CASSA.

 

(Q). What happens if the charter is taken away??? (A) Fly with Cassa.

 

Just like the kids playing cricket in the backyard and Dad burns the bat and ball after many fights and warnings.

 

Regards,

 

Keith Page.

Keith, you seem to have some infomation that I haven't been able to find.

 

Can you point us to the documentation where it shows that CASSA can close down Recreational Aviation Australia, Inc.?

 

 

[dodo]

Turbo,

 

RA-Aus is delegated by CASA to regulate us. CASA could retract the delegation. This would leave RA-Aus intact as a club, but having no regulatory authority, an simply an association of flyers (effectively, the AUF as a lobby and club).

 

CASA would then have to regulate us, and I think (but don't know), that existing certificates, registration etc. would remain valid unless CASA explicitly decided otherwise.

 

CASA would obviously not pay RA-Aus for the work RA-Aus currently do for them, and CASA would then do themselves, but I suspect that saving wouldn't cover the costs.

 

In any case, I imagine CASA are far happier keeping a watching brief on RA-Aus, rather than regulate the small fry themselves - otherwise, why would they ever have delegated the authority?

 

Also note that RA-Aus is only one of the six delgated authorities. CASA haven't previously pulled their delegation from any of these.

 

My conclusion is that CASA would only take over if they felt there was a real threat to safety. If they did, the consequences are unguessable, as the situation would need to be pretty dire before they did so.

 

dodo

 

 

[winsor68]

Turbo,My conclusion is that CASA would only take over if they felt there was a real threat to safety. If they did, the consequences are unguessable, as the situation would need to be pretty dire before they did so.

dodo

I think if the public face as shown by Ra-Aus is any indication of the private one that the situation, although not completely "grim"... is something I would describe as "Dire"... lol

Better communication and transparency from the CEO/Executive/Board would help this situation either way... and that is what is at the heart of it... IMO

 

 

[turboplanner]

Thanks, but I'm waiting to get the exact documentation from Keith, the Act, authorisation, powers, process etc. otherwise we are all guessing.

 

 

[kaz3g]

Thanks, but I'm waiting to get the exact documentation from Keith, the Act, authorisation, powers, process etc. otherwise we are all guessing.

CASA has the power...it is the responsible body constituted under the act. RAAus acts under a deed of arrangement with CASA rather than a true delegation.

 

If CASA becomes concerned that the current administration is so inept that safety is at risk, it will certainly act to abrogate the deed. That will not be the end of the world as we know it as CASA would simply appoint a management group to provide the necessary procedure and oversight. It might cost a little more in the short term but it may also avoid some horrifically expensive mistakes in the medium and longer term.

 

Kaz

 

 

[dodo]

Kaz,

 

so what is the difference between a deed of arrangement and a contract? And what allows CASA to pass their legal authority outside their own organisation?

 

dodo

 

 

[turboplanner]

I'm looking for the details Kaz, Keith should have them, but do you have the actual document trail references?

 

 

[Keith Page]

Good Morning Turbo

 

DoDo and Kaz have answered the question for you if you need the act and regulations please give me some time to locate them, then I will tell you where too look in them to get the exact information (I warn):- there is some woffle in the readings.. DoDo and Kaz have answered your question in a very understandable way, i.e. Laymans terms. Congratulations you both did a very good job and saved me typing an answer for Turbo. I have not got that much spare time these days.

 

Kaz? May I quote you "appoint a management group" With regard to the CASA management structure, under John McCormack and to one side not under the tree "Who is sitting there?" Yes they have been very quiet. To me it looks very much a "waiting management group". What do you all think?

 

I see on another thread what most people want,,, they want be to allowed to go flying legally. Hence all this hoo har, what is its value?

 

What are most of the members doing????????????????????

 

Regards,

 

Keith Page..

 

 

[turboplanner]

Thanks Keith, would appreciate it if you could provide the detailed information. I'm working on a project which could help a lot of people but need accurate information which will stand up to scrutiny.

 

Thanks to the other guys but I need specifics for this

 

 

[winsor68]

What are most of the members doing????????????????????

Regards,

 

Keith Page..

They are sitting by thinking its all a lot of hoo haa... I too take serious note of the fact that CASA does in fact have it's own Sports flying alternative admin in place... I am of the experience that CASA is like most things political.. it has many heads like a Hydra... For all that one part of CASA might not want to take the reins... someone within certainly would appear to be keen to... That is why I have such concern for the way Ra-Aus has been operating... It needs to be a much tighter ship IMO... the political hand could sway oh so easily...

 

 

[Chrism]

All that has ever been asked here of the RAA for years has been improved communications with the members and it has never happened to the satisfaction of particpants here. Even the CEO has not included a report in recent magazines (probably just another "mistake").

Captain/Folks,

 

I am pretty sure the Editor of the mag said that he would not merely include a monthly column from the usual RAA people unless they had something interesting/important to say and that it was well written (or something to that extent).

 

So, the absensce of a CEO's column could be an editorial descision-or I guess they may not have been submitted in the first plance. Either way, it woulkd be good for the members to regularly hear from 'the top'

 

Regards

 

 

[winsor68]

IMO the way to do this is not through the private/public magazine... it is through much, MUCH improved modern communication means...

 

 

[ave8rr]

IMO the way to do this is not through the private/public magazine... it is through much, MUCH improved modern communication means...

Some many months back we were told that that we would be getting a nice new modern web site and that would include a "members" log on and Forum facilities etc. WHY have a number of people offered (and tried) to get the RAAus site up and running and seemd to have given up?? I can't help but think that it is due to the Exec not wanting to go down this path.

Ian has stated on this Forum that he has offered to help but been declined.

 

Cheers

 

 

[kaz3g]

This is a useful document and I could see the Sport Aviation body described therein acting as the administrator of light aviation if needed...some old familiar names involved:

 

http://www.xsymetrix.com.au/Content/file/RAAus%20Board%20Presentation%20Feb%202010.ppt

 

Kaz

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

This is a useful document and I could see the Sport Aviation body described therein acting as the administrator of light aviation if needed...some old familiar names involved:http://www.xsymetrix.com.au/Content/file/RAAus Board Presentation Feb 2010.ppt

 

Kaz

You're right Kaz. Very interesting. Thank you for posting it...