RAAus stopping membership

[mattbutton]

It's time to take action, count me in

 

 

[farri]

I Didn`t know anything about Ians situation until reading about it here, a moment ago.

 

I copied this from RAA constitution.

 

9. Disciplining of Members.

 

(i) Where the Board is of the opinion or where it appears to the Board that a Member of the

 

Association:

 

a. has breached any Recreational Aviation Australia Operations/Technical Manual

 

requirement, or Civil Aviation Act 1988 (Com) section, or Civil Aviation

 

Regulation, or By-Law of the Association as may be amended from time to time.

 

aa. Failure to comply with a direction from the Board or the Operations/Technical

 

managers will be deemed to have brought the organisation into disrepute.

 

b. has acted in a manner prejudicial to the interests of the Association, then the Board

 

may appoint a Disciplinary Panel for the purpose of hearing and determining

 

complaints and charges against such Members. Such a Panel shall be constituted

 

by the appointment of a Disciplinary Panel Chairman together with no less than two

 

and no more than six other Members of the association, the selection of whom is at

 

the discretion of the Board. Alternatively, the Board may choose to hear the

 

complaint, in which case it shall be placed upon the agenda of the next Board

 

meeting and shall be heard by such Members of the Board as to ensure a fair

 

hearing is given to the Member concerned.

 

(ii) Where the Disciplinary Panel or the Board is to consider charges in accordance with subrule

 

(i), the Disciplinary Panel or the Board as the case may be, shall, as soon as

 

practicable, cause notice to be served on the Members as required in Rule 37. Such notice

 

shall:-

 

a. Set out the complaint and charge of the Board and the grounds upon which it is

 

based; and

 

b. State the date, place and time of the Disciplinary Panel or the Board hearing; and

 

c. Inform the Member that they may do any one or more of the following:

 

(i) Attend and speak at the hearing.

 

(ii) Submit to the Disciplinary Panel or the Board at or prior to the hearing,

 

written representation relating to the matter.

 

(iii) At a meeting of the Disciplinary Panel or the Board held as referred to herein, the Panel or

 

the Board shall:-

 

a. Give to the Member an opportunity to make oral representations; and

 

b. Give due consideration to any written representations submitted to the Panel or the

 

Board by the Member; and

 

c. By resolution determine whether action against the Member is warranted and if so

 

to determine what action should be taken.

 

Frank.

 

 

[shags_j]

Hi Frank, there is much discussion earlier in the thread.

 

The issue was that Ian was applying for membership again after letting it lapse. Being a "new" member it had different rules. If he was just renewing his membership, would have been a different matter.

 

 

[cazza]

This letter from the president was posted on the RA-Aus website.

 

Absence of the President at the September 12 AGM

 

August 29, 2012 | members

 

Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

Unfortunately, due to work commitments, I will not be able to attend the Sep 12 AGM being held at Heck Airfield. This is regrettable but I can assure you that I have done everything I can to get away and attend the meeting as I see it as a very important part of my appointment as President. I will continue to attempt to get there but at the moment it is not looking good. I will also be unavailable to attend the board meeting that follows the AGM or the NORRA-Aus fly-in at Monto on the weekend 29 Sep to 1 Oct 12.

 

I fully understand that this should be an opportunity for you to question me, as President, about past or ongoing issues and for me to be given the opportunity to answer in person. However, this cannot be helped. I wish to provide you all with the opportunity to ask your questions and for me to answer them. To that end I request members e-mail me any questions or points you wish to raise and I will provide an answer that can be read out at the AGM. My e-mail address can be found on the website and I am ready to take questions immediately.

 

I offer you all my apologies for this inconvenience but, as stated, it is beyond my control.

 

I look forward to receiving your questions and to meeting you again sometime in the future.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Steve Runciman

 

President

 

RA-Aus

 

 

[horsefeathers]

One thing I am unclear about.

 

The bylaws talk about action by the Board.

 

Is this "reluctance" to readmit Ian an action by the full board, or just by the president of RAA??

 

From reading the bylaws, it must be a board decision. Under what authority can a president take this action?

 

Surely, a unilateral decision by the President has no authority in this scenario.

 

 

[Riley]

This letter from the president was posted on the RA-Aus website.Absence of the President at the September 12 AGM

 

August 29, 2012 | members

 

Ladies and Gentlemen,

 

Unfortunately, due to work commitments, I will not be able to attend the Sep 12 AGM being held at Heck Airfield. This is regrettable but I can assure you that I have done everything I can to get away and attend the meeting as I see it as a very important part of my appointment as President. I will continue to attempt to get there but at the moment it is not looking good. I will also be unavailable to attend the board meeting that follows the AGM or the NORRA-Aus fly-in at Monto on the weekend 29 Sep to 1 Oct 12.

 

I fully understand that this should be an opportunity for you to question me, as President, about past or ongoing issues and for me to be given the opportunity to answer in person. However, this cannot be helped. I wish to provide you all with the opportunity to ask your questions and for me to answer them. To that end I request members e-mail me any questions or points you wish to raise and I will provide an answer that can be read out at the AGM. My e-mail address can be found on the website and I am ready to take questions immediately.

 

I offer you all my apologies for this inconvenience but, as stated, it is beyond my control.

 

I look forward to receiving your questions and to meeting you again sometime in the future.

 

Kind Regards,

 

Steve Runciman

 

President

 

RA-Aus

Methinks, if Mr Runciman's personal or career requirements are suddenly so demanding that he must forego attending the AGM meeting that is so important to some 10,000 paid up members that he is supposed to be guiding, then maybe it's time he recognizes and acknowledges,(despite whether his past efforts have been effective or not), that he is not properly filling the position and as such, should tender his resignation. Nobody gave me the money that I fund my flying with - I'd hate to see part of it being used to finance an unnecessary and frivolous defence. Is it too hot in the RAA kitchen? I'm Not Happy Jan!

 

 

[Guernsey]

Why can't he answer our email questions BEFORE the AGM.

 

Alan.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Why can't he answer our email questions BEFORE the AGM.Alan.

Alan,

I think the inference is (although not clear), that he will provide answers (no doubt via the chairman) to all our email questions publicly at the AGM.

 

Could be interesting ... doesn't help those who cannot attend due distance limitations. I wonder if there is an intended email response individually as well.

 

 

[damkia]

My guess?

 

Legally muzzled....

 

 

[fly_tornado]

or more likely, claiming to be legally muzzled

 

 

[David Isaac]

Consequences always follow actions, in this case, his actions.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Yes Mate, I have thought about it but that would mean I would have to lie down and turn over on this matter not to mention the cost or even the freedom to simply be allowed to change the oil in my aircraft and then what happens to the "next guy"...this is all about setting a precedent that will help protect many others...for crying out loud, it is YOUR Association, it is not a Government department, it is not owned by Steve Runciman or Paul Middleton or Steve Tizzard...YOU own it and they should be acting on behalf of YOUR wishes, not their own

I am appalled to read this thread and to see such lack of 'natural justice' in this instance. I acknowledge that I have only heard one side of the issue. However, this one side is sufficient for me to pronounce the handling of Ian's application as UN-AUSTRALIAN

 

Ian, I really hope this matter works out well for you personally in the end. Nevertheless, there really is a serious structural issue that needs addressing as soon as possible. II live in New Zealand at present and if/when I move back to my home country I would be applying to join the RA-Aus (OK now RA-Aus officers reading this: you can't blacklist me because I won't be applying under the eightyknots name ). The issue at stake is that, in a democratic and free society, anyone should be able to air criticism of an organisation without having a membership veto imposed upon them! that smacks of Stalinist-era tactics and I find it hard to believe this is happening in Australia!!

 

Perhaps more than one organisation representing recreational flyers in Australia is the answer? It works very well in New Zealand. The reality is that there is a healthy competition between the organisations to try to serve their respective members as well as they can. If one organisation was to hand out a 'raw deal' the other would gain the membership pretty soon afterwards. This restrains office bearers targeting members. The only way to describe the rivalry between the organisations in New Zealand is "friendly" and I heartily recommend bringing a second organisation into Australia where there are four times as many recreational flyers as New Zealand.

 

This may sound pretty bold, but could the Recreationalflying.com organisation perhaps morph into an organisation acceptable to CASA?

 

Please consider......

 

 

[damkia]

or more likely, claiming to be legally muzzled

It has already been established that the solicitors have been called, so he would be "under advisement"from his legal team either way given that it is a current and unresolved issue.

It may also be that he is legally not allowed to be personally present while discussion or voting is taking place (conflict of interests, etc).

 

 

[Admin]

Steve Runciman has also said in his notice that he will not be attending NORRA-Aus as well so that means no face to face contact that I know of for the general membership till NatFly next year

 

 

[shags_j]

It has already been established that the solicitors have been called, so he would be "under advisement"from his legal team either way given that it is a current and unresolved issue.It may also be that he is legally not allowed to be personally present while discussion or voting is taking place (conflict of interests, etc).

Once again we are talking an incorporated association that helps everyone to fly. There should NOT be any legal action at all. The board should give Ian his membership. Simple as that.

Just a side thought, if Ian has supposedly bought RAAus into disrepute, have they thought about all the positive things that he has done for the association?

 

 

[shags_j]

Question: Are the elected reps aware that all this is happening?

 

 

[damkia]

This may sound pretty bold, but could the Recreationalflying.com organisation perhaps morph into an organisation acceptable to CASA?

Please consider......

I would be looking to tap into SAAA with Recreationalflying.com as most of the aircraft owners here have built aircraft, or fly non S-SLA (kitbuilt by someone else earlier in life) aircraft, and use the common thread of "Builders/Recreational Flyers" as the organisational basis, rather than a solely E-LSA/S-LSA with prebuilts and home/amateur built aircraft in the one RA type mix. Give the S-LSA over to CASA where AD's and so on can be more carefully administered, and get the Amateur built/Kit built SAAA and E-LSA type aircraft under the one banner.

 

CASA have the new Rec licence which anyone with RA-Aus licence should be able to easily convert to (5-10 hrs tops? Mainly theory), essentially making the RA-Aus licence redundant. With CASA holding the cards on the S-LSA fleet it would be possible to do the equivalent of the RA-Aus in the "light stuff" and do a conversion to heavier aircraft if/when needed. It would not necessarily be any more expensive to do it this way for the "light stuff" flying than what it is currently, and would increase the quality of training and general oversight through the use of staff with CPL's.

 

Think Bold..............

 

 

[damkia]

Once again we are talking an incorporated association that helps everyone to fly. There should NOT be any legal action at all. The board should give Ian his membership. Simple as that.Just a side thought, if Ian has supposedly bought RAAus into disrepute, have they thought about all the positive things that he has done for the association?

What should happen and what is happening are two different scenarios. Unfortunately we are in the is happening situation, so there isn't much point about trying to bury your head in the sand about it.

I agree it should not have got to this point, but let's deal with the situation we now have constructively.

 

 

[shags_j]

Agreed. I will actually make an effort to get to the AGM this year.

 

 

[facthunter]

If there was a breach of flying rules or dangerous practices , that would be a proper use of the rules that are being used.

 

In this case Ian has," Annoyed" a person who spends quite a bit of paid time and our money trying to "Get" Ian.. This site is a problem to them obviously. Too bad !!They should just wear it if everything is legal. If Ian bothers them who else is next? Is there a file being formed of "undesireables". There had better not be, or they should be prepared to have it made public on FOI grounds .Grown men should behave like they are. The precedent bothers me here. The RAAus is not somebody's Tree House they have in their backyard and can exclude who they wish. These people don't own the show and are there to RUN it for all of us. Not for some of us they want to decide on these sorts of issues. Nev

 

 

[cazza]

The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing. EDMUND BURKE

 

I have voted for representatives to take on a duty of care to ensure the organisation meets its mission statements, meets the needs of its members and functions with integrity and fairness. So I will be contacting my board members and asking them if the rumours of purported actions are true, and if they have been perpetrators and willing partners in:

 

1. Voting to deny natural justice to a former member;

 

2. Voting to stop work on the constitutional changes;

 

3. Sanctioning public documents that contain plans to contravene constitutional processes;

 

4. Sanctioning a "HIT LIST" of members to be denied the constitutional due process in place;

 

I urge you all to ask the hard questions of the people who were voted in to look after you. We have a right to let them know how we feel and they have a right to set the record straight.

 

Cazza

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Is it just me, or does anyone else feel like a rat on the deck of a sinking ship, and the captain and the crew were the first overboard in the lifeboats....Annoyed, disappointed, but most of all, scared for our future.

 

"how can we win, when fools can be kings" (muse).

 

 

[shags_j]

Again, does anyone know if the Elected Reps have been made aware of this situation by the board?

 

 

[turboplanner]

The elected reps ARE the board Shags. Makes you wonder doesn't it.

 

 

[shags_j]

Well you know what i mean...