ICP cooperating with Zenair???

[rankamateur]

After all the bagging and accusations of design theft, now we are all warm and cosy.

 

http://www.icp.it/Avio/detail_en.asp?num=16&voce=news

 

Anyone speak French? http://www.zenair650ei.fr/

 

 

[kaz3g]

What do you want to know?

 

Kaz

 

 

[Gentreau]

I shall be there tommorrow (Blois) and be taking a look at it. :)

 

Were you after a translation of the french website ?

 

 

[rankamateur]

I shall be there tommorrow (Blois) and be taking a look at it. :)Were you after a translation of the french website ?

An english tab would have been useful, a cooperative developement between these two was probrably the last thing I expected to see. I wondered why French, is Zenair french now?

 

 

[Gentreau]

Probably because France is the biggest microlight market in europe with approx. 15000 pilots.

 

Our regulations are relatively 'light' compared to say, the UK, which allows a lot of freedom in flying.

 

Yesterday I was at the Festival ULM at Blois where Zenith were exhibiting along with probably 40 other microlight makers.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Probably because France is the biggest microlight market in europe with approx. 15000 pilots.Our regulations are relatively 'light' compared to say, the UK, which allows a lot of freedom in flying.

Yesterday I was at the Festival ULM at Blois where Zenith were exhibiting along with probably 40 other microlight makers.

Did you see the CH 650Ei at the show?

 

 

[Gentreau]

You mean this one.

 

 

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Gentreau

 

Was Aero East Europe from Serbia there displaying their MXP line of aircraft?

 

I have recently been corresponding with Max Tedesco the designer of the Savannah and also had a lot to do with the original 701 design with Chris Heintz. ICP stole the Savannah design from Max this is well documented here. It turns out this mob in Serbia have also stolen his designs for the later generation MXP aircraft and are making direct copies of them as well. Apparently these countries can do this because of their laws they are not able to be sued or taken to court.

 

ICP are using their manufacturing proess to obviously do a deal with Zenair France. Whether Zenair in the USA is getting any kickback is unknown though

 

Mark

 

 

[Mark11]

An english tab would have been useful, a cooperative developement between these two was probrably the last thing I expected to see. I wondered why French, is Zenair french now?

When I go to the website, up pops a google translate bar at the top. Hit English and presto... All English

 

Looks like a nice plane.

 

 

[eightyknots]

This is what Zenith says on their website (http://www.zenithair.com/stolch701/7-photo-copies.html) about ICP:

 

It appears that ICP of Italy manufactures and markets the whole line of (modified) Heintz designs.

 

The main CH701 modifications include a raised cabin (the wing root does not taper at the cabin) and the tail sections have been changed.

 

The modified STOL CH 701 is marketed as the 'Savannah' or MXP-740 in Europe, and is available both in kit form or factory-built.

 

Copies of Zenair Amphibious floats are even available from ICP...

 

ICP's Savannah MXP 740, also called the Bingo.

 

The copies are marketed by Skykits Corporation in North America as "painstakingly engineered in Italy," although they admit that the Savannah is "comparable in looks and components" to the STOL CH 701.

 

This is a hybrid / mutated aircraft from Italy with STOL CH 701 fuselage and Zodiac CH 601 HDS wings...

 

The Italian company not only produces copies of the STOL CH 701, but also modified versions of the ZODIAC CH 601 HD and ZODIAC CH 601 HDS. Their website (www.icp.it) boasts that they've delivered 157 aircraft.

 

Super Amigo (or is it a modified Super ZODIAC CH 601 HDS?) with a turbo 914.

 

The company even has international dealers...

 

I hope Zenith and ICP continue to have a friendly interchange of ideas. What would be really nice is to be able to fold the wings on the Savannah (as the CH-701 can do) so that people who have trouble obtaining a hangar can store their plane in a garage.

 

 

[rankamateur]

When I go to the website, up pops a google translate bar at the top. Hit English and presto... All EnglishLooks like a nice plane.

An add-on maybe?

 

 

[Mark11]

Im using an ipad 2... Just Used the link to the website & google translate bar was at the top...

 

 

[Gentreau]

Hi GentreauWas Aero East Europe from Serbia there displaying their MXP line of aircraft?

Not that I noticed, but then there was so many different aircraft, I could easily have missed them.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Was Aero East Europe from Serbia there displaying their MXP line of aircraft?

http://www.planecheck.com/index.asp?ent=da&id=19097&cor=y

 

Thier MXP-155 looks just like the spirit that Tom is taking to Monto at the end of the month.

 

http://www.worldaircraftco.com/spirit/

 

 

[eightyknots]

http://www.planecheck.com/index.asp?ent=da&id=19097&cor=yThier MXP-155 looks just like the spirit that Tom is taking to Monto at the end of the month.

http://www.worldaircraftco.com/spirit/

The two aircraft look pretty similar. Even the designation "MXP" was used by the co-designer of the Zenith CH-701 and ICP used pre-VG MXP for their Savannahs for a while. It's all rather strange.

 

BTW: I think the 103 knot cruising speed (@ 75%) and a 30 knot stall speed seems hard to believe.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

I have been speaking directly with Max Tedesco via email about the Vision from WAC with Toms blessing he being the dealer here for WAC. The Vision is similar to the Spirit but has more stol with a different wing and much bigger doors and has specs like the Savannah and much more room also greater weight handling. I have just come back from the freight guys to have a look at 2 of the Spirit kits that are there at the moment. The factory built one hopefully will be at Monto it has already left Brisbane to be assembled and signed off up the coast it should be ready i hope. I have taken some photos of the painted kit and the unpainted one from the quick look I had they both look very good. I am impressed so far with what I have seen. The 2 kits that are here I know who they are for but will not say unless the owners allow me to but I know the painted one will have a Viking engine in it which also I am very interested at looking at.

 

The guys from Serbia ripped Max off once again even to his MX model number series he is spewing and I dont blame him

 

Mark

 

I am trying to get my photos off the iphone at the moment as it has crapped itself on the charge and itunes hookup so will post some pics when I can

 

 

[rankamateur]

The two aircraft look pretty similar. Even the designation "MXP" was used by the co-designer of the Zenith CH-701 and ICP used pre-VG MXP for their Savannahs for a while. It's all rather strange.BTW: I think the 103 knot cruising speed (@ 75%) and a 30 knot stall speed seems hard to believe.

Max is just an unbelievable designer, that is the why people are always lining up to rip off his designs.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I have never heard of World Aircraft before. They look realy nice.I like how the sticks easily fold forward, to help with ingress and egress. Great Idea.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Here are some pics I took of the 2 spirit kits here. 1 is painted the other is not they come in open crates and looked like they are packed reasonably well. I hope Tom gets the Spirit factory built flying for Monto I would love to have a fly in it and see how it performs as the Vision the one I am interested in should be a lot better in Stol a little slower of course due to the thicker wing but there is lots of room inside these aircraft they will fly here of course at 600kg but the MTOW is 750 kg !!!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Mark, can you confirm that the aircraft are kits and not factory built, then disassembled for transport.If they are a kit. Alot of the work looks already done.Which would be great.

 

PS- I had a look at WAC web site, around $43 K US Fully built kit or about 10K less fully built kit not painted. Sounds like value for money, considering how much work is done.Lools like, just add Engine, instruments and wiring.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Hi Dazza

 

The 2 you see here are "the kit" versions known as ELSA. Most of the work is done you of course supply your own engine and avionics and wiring and also paint if you get the unpainted one. The white one is a "painted kit"...the paint job looks pretty good too. The kit is preassembled parts then shipped there is a photo on the Spirit webpage spread out of the kit.

 

They say around 2 days to assemble the parts then of course engine mount and engine and all the other stuff required will take several weeks one would think.

 

The factory built one that came in this same shipment is a fully completed aircraft ready to fly that was taken apart (wings removed) and will be reassembled and flown and signed off here in Qld...ready for Monto I hope

 

Mark

 

 

[Mick]

The 2 you see here are "the kit" versions known as ELSA. Most of the work is done

Mark

This is one of the cool things about ELSA ( Experimental LSA ), there is no 51% rule for kits in this category. This enables manufacturers to offer quick build kits that leave very little to the builder but still offer some of the economies of a kit. I am suprised more manufacturers have not made offerings to take advantage of this rule.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

Actually this is what I am interested in whether you can do the assembly and still do the complete maintenance yourself

 

 

[Mick]

I am pretty sure that other than the 51% rule, ELSA regulations are much the same as a 19-XXXX registered standard recreational aircraft. You can do your own maintenance but they cannot be used for training or hire ( regardless of who maintains them ).

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Guys, I just spent 20 minutes looking at a you tube video. I reckon that it is a realy realy good aircraft. (well aircrafts), I like both the Vision and the Spirit.And you are right Mark, manufactures should be looking more into this. Having the whole airframe built and rigged at the factory . Takes alot of the stress out of it. I also like how people can but the upholstery kit and all the other kits to finish it off. More like a assembly kit instead on a manufacturing type kit. Thumb up.