Controlled space over Adelaide

[rdarby]

Hi

 

I just want to check I am reading the Adelaide VTC correctly. It looks like the city, centered over Adelaide International, is class C from the surface to 1500. Then the next ring out is C LL 1500.

 

What confuses me is that it's a black line around the airport, not the usual blue dashed one, so I'm not sure where the space starts.

 

The reason for asking is that I am at our Adelaide office, and they are flying Point of View model aircraft, and they are in the city.

 

Is that an issue?

 

Cheers

 

Ryan

 

 

[av8vfr]

Hey Ryan, I have a digital VTC but unsure of the date.

 

It shows C class from Surface to FL out to 11 DME from YPAD then steps up to 2500 out to 20 DME. Next step is 4500 at 36 DME

 

No black line on mine.. but it may be out of date..

 

 

[Herm]

Hi Ryan.. The only black lines I see on the VTC is the railway lines...

 

Regards

 

Mardy

 

 

[djpacro]

The usual blue lines are the ones you should be looking at for airspace there. If you want to use the old-fashioned navaids then you might take an interest in that black circle around the airport.

 

 

[frank marriott]

I just looked at the current VTC and can't see the black lines you refer to?

 

VTC and Nav Aids - I am missing something?

 

FrankM

 

 

[turboplanner]

God help us all

 

 

[petetheprinta]

No black lines on mine either ??

 

 

[rdarby]

I've zoomed in (seeing it on an iPhone) and the lines are the nav aid ring. We can ignore that.

 

What confused me was the two sets of limits. First C from surface to 1500. Then below it C from 1500. It makes sense when you think, they are just specifying a it in two layers, instead of saying C LL SFC.

 

Therefore you should not be above the ground over suburban or city Adelaide.

 

Model planes are though, and with point of view cameras those pilots dont have situational awareness of aircraft near them. And modern models can fly high.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Here you go the answer to all your questions!

 

http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/rules/1998casr/101/101c03.pdf

 

In short not above 400ft , or within 3nm of an airport. From memory the city in Adelaide would probably be pushing it, but I don't have a VTC handy to check for sure. If you have a need to operate within 3nm, or above 400 feet (for commercial reasons), you can get approval from the governing authority, in this case Airservices. If it is just joy flying, then I would doubt they would give approval.

 

Cheers, HH.

 

 

[rdarby]

Thanks Howard!

 

 

[dodo]

You can reasonably easily get an exemption to go above 400' so long as you are a fair way from anything (clubs sometimes organise this). I think flying within 3nm of _any_ ALA would be a much bigger ask.

 

dodo

 

 

[Guernsey]

bs about the black lines..

If you're refering to Herm's post I think it is...

 

Alan.

 

 

[petetheprinta]

Here you go the answer to all your questions! http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/rules/1998casr/101/101c03.pdf

 

In short not above 400ft , or within 3nm of an airport. From memory the city in Adelaide would probably be pushing it, but I don't have a VTC handy to check for sure. If you have a need to operate within 3nm, or above 400 feet (for commercial reasons), you can get approval from the governing authority, in this case Airservices. If it is just joy flying, then I would doubt they would give approval.

 

Cheers, HH.

Thanks HH, a very handy piece of info. I was unaware I was flying my rc's where I shouldn't be. (within 3 nm).

 

 

[Hongie]

The Bowen (model) aero club has model rc flyers ON the airfield right next to the cross strip.. Don't know if they have an exemption. They are also quite protective of THEIR airfield, and asked us not to fly there on Saturdays because that's when they fly their models.

 

 

[dodo]

From the ERSA for YBWN:

 

ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

 

1.Agricultural OPS take place HJ WI 5NM RAD up to 500FT AGL.

 

2.Model ACFT operating WI the AD locality

 

The CASA advisory is useful (http://www.casa.gov.au/wcmswr/_assets/main/rules/1998casr/101/101c01.pdf). Basically, if you stay under 100grms, you are fine. Otherwise, join a club, or go along way from airfields.

 

dodo

 

 

[Hongie]

i was aware of the ersa entry.

 

I was not aware of the < 100 grams stipulation, which most of the models flown there are well above anyways.

 

 

[dodo]

The ERSA entry for YBWN implies the existence of a CASA approval of some sort.

 

The <100g is a nice exception which really allows for paper planes and little stuff - but it allows a lot of freedom. Flying a tiny Toys R Us polystyrene RC plane doesn't justify reading CAOs and CARs!

 

Most RC models are well above 100g - so 400' altitude limit and 3nm from an airfield. Or just go a long way away...how do you measure 400' with any accuracy, and how hard should you try when you are 20 miles from the nearest airfield? If you relying on visual control, you probably won't go too high or far anyway.

 

POV models would be different, but your radio range is probably a few thousand feet. If you push the limits, you lose your plane, without any CASA intervention required!

 

dodo

 

 

[frank marriott]

A bit like "meat bombs"as described by many in both RAA and GA. They enjoy their sport and rightly so and in (I suggest in most cases correct) but sometimes can be dangerous to both themselves and other users of the same airspace.

 

For example in this area a very active Shute dropping area about 100nm north most times I have been there separation can be achieved easily with a conversation between the drop pilot and other aircraft. But recently I had the experience of arranging separation with a professionally operated organisation only to find on base a Shute close by with no advice from the particular pilot of this drop.

 

I was monitoring both area and CTAF freqs.

 

A friend flew in a Thruster with no radio (this area is OCTA and carriage of radio is not mandated).

 

My point is I thought it had potential safety problems monitoring both freqs. With one operator not using the radio for whatever reason.

 

When I mentioned this my friend he was unaware of any shutes and was quite happy.

 

I guess the lesson I am referring to is OCTA do not rely on your radio ONLY.

 

The location being about 50nm south of "Farri - Frank" I find the area of some concern because it is a very active area.

 

I was cut off by a C182 on joining final and I can only guess that was the aircraft involved with the unidentified Shute/s that I found.

 

By the time I landed the C182 was parked and unattended.

 

Shortly a Pc12/Fletcher type aircraft landed piloted by a friend of mine and when I raised the matter his reply was be careful of some operators in this area.

 

So the problem about a couple of people doing a straight in appooach is not good but there is a lot of problems Australia wide which cannot be legislated for.

 

I believe commensence cannot be replaced with more legislation. Good AIRMANSHIP is the only way and every chance to promote this should be taken by all pilots whatever their individual perceived status happens to be.

 

FrankM

 

 

[old man emu]

Just to put the cat amongst the pigeons..... doesn't a commercial activity involving aircraft of any type (including unmanned RC aircraft) require an Air Operators Certificate (AOC) from CASA? I believe that this little requirement has stopped some RC enthusiasts from starting little businesses with their planes.

 

OME

 

 

[turboplanner]

Not the DCIA