Pacific Ibis Grounding

[bilby54]

RA-Aus has grounded all Pacific Ibis aircraft from 1138 today.

 

Tough luck for those of us using them for training as it is a paperwork issue from several years back and nothing to do with the integrity of the aircraft

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Must be a mintie moment for the RAA Opps team...just in time for the AGM!

 

 

[BPN]

I must be going blind?? I searched the official RA Aus site but could not find the official notification? Can any one help?

 

 

[ave8rr]

I must be going blind?? I searched the official RA Aus site but could not find the official notification? Can any one help?

G'day Bruce, I have also checked the web site this morning and can't find any reference to this grounding. I thought it would have been posted under either "Airworthiness" or "News". Again we have to learn things from this Rec Flying Forum.

 

 

[Tomo]

Someone should put that shotgun away... grounding the poor Ibis... Jimny crickets!!!

 

 

[Admin]

We have seen many many many grounding of aircraft this year due to failures by the CEO (Tizzard)/President (Runciman) regime to competently manage the operations of RAAus, it is a sorry and very frequent state of affairs and now the Ibis has been grounded.

 

I really feel for the owners of these aircraft in being prevented from flying due to these management failures however, at least it will just be time that they are grounded and eventually they will be allowed to fly again once everything is sorted.

 

I must follow up on all the groundings of other aircraft that were also grounded this year e.g. Super Petrel, to see if they are all back in the air again...anyone have any news on all the others

 

 

[turboplanner]

Interestingly the owners don't seem at all concerned, judging by the lack of noise coming from them

 

 

[Wayne T Mathews]

Just 'cause they're not posting here doesn't mean they're not concerned and/or making noise, Turbz.

 

 

[turboplanner]

They're not posting or making ANY public noise, and in not doing that, with the secrecy going on, how would thousands of members know there were or were not issues?

 

Have these people done something wrong and are just being dealt with appropriately?

 

Should we stay away from their products?

 

 

[metalman]

if they don't know....they won't crow......like the rest of us...perhaps they haven't heard yet?

 

to suggest the product is suspect is very argueable/ mean/ irresponsible.

They know, that question is answered!

 

 

[metalman]

tell us more mm....

Nope, suffice to say the owners knew within minutes that their was an issue

 

 

[BPN]

Nope, suffice to say the owners knew within minutes that their was an issue

I do not believe you, after all the issues of the past regarding openness, etc etc you give this response. If it was GA the world would know.

CASA would make sure of that. Just maybe thats what this org neeeds is for CASA to step inb.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

This was discussed at todaysAGM(wellnot specifically the IBIS rather a "type" with identifed problems in that last few days.) What was said was:-

 

1) the Aircraft was imported into Australia in part built fashion (kit?) and then the importer was completing the kit in Australia and it was being registered 24 class under factory LSA rules when the factory didnt actually build the complete aircraft.

 

2) It was being worked with the Importer and Factory and RAA Opps tean and that the importer was working appropriately with the RAA team.

 

3) No clarity on when resolution would occur, nor if the resolution would be removal of 24 and application of 19 as has been done with others.

 

4) Middo explained thatwhere the 24 to 19 swap had been done that there werent (any?/many?) that were being used for flight training.....but at the end of the day I dont know what that would do to resale value....for me 19 was worth more than 24 but I suspect more often that not the reverse is the case...

 

Andy

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

So how many aircraft are we talking about here, anyone know ?............................................Maj...

 

 

[bilby54]

From the speed at which things have happened, I don't think there was time to post it on the web site but all owners and operators were contacted immediately the ban was imposed.

 

Not so much as the aircraft was "kit built" in this country as many imported factory aircraft are assembled and completed. This issue is related to paperwork for a type certificate for our regulations and other miscellaneous things in relation to 'our regulations' specifically 95.55

 

The thing that bothers me is why after 6 years on the register and all registered with 24, did it picked up now? Surely that is supposed to happen when it is put on the register and approved by both CASA and RAA. Who did the job on this one??? A lot of owners and operators with what was an approved aircraft are in shock and things could possibly get a little ugly if not sorted soon

 

 

[Guest Maj Millard]

There's a good chance that the current state of the CASA regulations may have contributed here. In particular to the import of aircraft from a foreign country. CASA for that purpose have 'approved ' countrys, and 'non-approved 'countrys, when it comes to accepting other countrys' regulatory systems.

 

I don't have the required reference material in front of me but maybe the country that the Ibis comes from is not on the 'accepted' list...It's all got to do with accepting, or not accepting, another countrys standards....Furthermore CASA currently draws it's decisions from three different sets of regulations, those laid down in 1988 (CARs) those laid down in 1998 (CASRs), and the new FAR/JAA european style regulations that they are attempting to introduce ! Those golf-playing office hobbits in Canberra have really got 'protecting our jobs' down to a fine art now haven't they ? and I don't mean the RAAus ones.........................................................................Maj...

 

 

[Gnarly Gnu]

why was it posted?

Why you care?

 

 

[metalman]

I do not believe you, after all the issues of the past regarding openness, etc etc you give this response. If it was GA the world would know.CASA would make sure of that. Just maybe thats what this org neeeds is for CASA to step inb.

That would make me a liar then!

The importer is a good friend of mine and I spent about an hour on the phone with him this morning ,,,,,but as you've discovered I'm a liar so please disregard all the above

 

Met

 

 

[winsor68]

So how many aircraft are we talking about here, anyone know ?............................................Maj...

3...?There can't be too many. I know of only one... it has been used for training.

 

 

[bilby54]

3...?There can't be too many. I know of only one... it has been used for training.

In the order of ten +/-, so in excess of a $million for the current fleet . I use one for training - sorry used one up until Thursday and several along the coast are also trainers.

 

The point of the posting was to highlight that someone in authority has stuffed up big time and somone else doing audits has found out so don't be surprised if other aircraft are suddenly grounded without notice and not posted with any 'substantive' information. This is nothing to do with airworthiness but is a huge "clerical" error be it CASA or RAA

 

 

[Mick]

This was discussed at todaysAGM(wellnot specifically the IBIS rather a "type" with identifed problems in that last few days.) What was said was:-1) the Aircraft was imported into Australia in part builtfashion (kit?) and then the importer was completing the kit in Australia and it was being registered 24 class under factory LSA rules when the factory didnt actually build the complete aircraft.

 

Andy

Andy the Ibis ( specific subject of this thread ) is not registered LSA, it is registered standard Recreational.

 

 

[Mick]

So how many aircraft are we talking about here, anyone know ?............................................Maj...

As far as I know there are at least 10 Ibis flying in Australia.

 

 

[Mick]

3...?There can't be too many. I know of only one... it has been used for training.

As well as the Ibis Bilby54 has in training, the Aussie agent for the Ibis also uses them in his own flying school. This issue has currently halted both business for him, not only is he working with authorities to try and sort this issue for his customers, his flying school is closed due to lack of an aircraft permitted to fly.

 

 

[Mick]

I must be going blind?? I searched the official RA Aus site but could not find the official notification? Can any one help?

The RAAus website has not been getting updated and there are several documents on there that are not accessable. Try opening 6 of the 7 latest documents relating to Rotax.

 

This is yet another failing on the part of RAAus.

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

Yeah,

 

My Jab was grounded a few months ago and I believe with some others

 

Cought me 800 miles from home via email and later letter

 

Shoot, they have my phone number. Very disappointing service from my point as the expense of commercial flight home was not cheap

 

Perhaps I can contact the no charge lawyers for reimbursement?

 

Guess not as I will have to pay more subs.

 

In fairness to some degree, the stuff up was fixed in a couple of weeks, so hope this is the case here.

 

One wonders why this has to happen again