visualising circuits on printed map

[ayavner]

Hi there - wondering if there is a good way to draw an accurately proportioned circuit diagram over a google satellite map of an unfamiliar runway - just to help me visualise the cues and major features before seeing it for the first time in the air.

 

for example... I've printed out a google satellite image of Wollongong (YWOL), extended the centreline on both ends, drawn an extended 45 degree line extending from the threshold on both ends, but unsure where to connect the dots.

 

I know it "depends" to some extent on alot of factors, but there should be a good way to eyeball distances, ie when to turn xwind, how far out from the runway, and when to turn base - some kind of rule of thumb?

 

Again, doesn't have to be pinpoint accurate, just a guideline to help visualise.

 

Anyone else do this/done this?

 

 

[Zibi]

My suggestion would be to GPS map a couple of your own circuits to get the idea of distances you keep towards the runway, cause the size of your circuit depends a lot on the type of plane you fly and on your personal preferences.

 

Once you've got this, apply to the new runway.

 

The software I've used is My Tracks for android devices, but there are plenty of other free or paid for programs like that.

 

The only other advice I got in this regard (apart from always being in glide distance to the runway) is to keep the knuckle of the control frame on the runway, but this only works with trikes.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Ayavner:

 

Yes, there is a path tool with GE that will allow you to do this. Go into Add and select Path. In basic GE you can only set the altitude of the whole path all the same, so you wont be able to visualise the height progressions. I think in the subscription GE there are more capabilities, but not too sure about that as I only have the basic.

 

HTH

 

 

[ayavner]

Hi guys,

 

Good suggestions, but what I am talking about is a way for me to get some visualisation before I even visit the airfield in question, having never been there.... just mental preparation.

 

Scott, what's GE?

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Hi guys,Good suggestions, but what I am talking about is a way for me to get some visualisation before I even visit the airfield in question, having never been there.... just mental preparation.

 

Scott, what's GE?

Sorry, Google Earth

 

 

[Ultralights]

this is the usual circuit for YWOL. for BOTH runway directions... runway 16-34. the circuit for 08-26 is to the north for both directions. but 08-26 is rarely used unless dictated by crosswind limits, noisy neighbours and all.

 

 

basically try to avoid overflying the houses to the south and north.. crosswind/base legs.

 

 

[ayavner]

Perfect, thanks UL!!

 

 

[68volksy]

Great little site for getting measurements and stuff in NSW is Six Viewer: http://lite.maps.nsw.gov.au/

 

Maps can be much more detailed in some areas than GE also.

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

When you do a normal circuit at your home field, do you use visual clues with relation to your aircraft? These will work at any airfield so long as you keep your circuit altitude the same.

 

Ever thought about timed circuits? That way you won't need mud maps, etc... and will be able to use it at any new airfield!

 

Twenty seconds from abeam the threshold works really well! What do you think we use at night?

 

 

[Mick]

When you do a normal circuit at your home field, do you use visual clues with relation to your aircraft? These will work at any airfield so long as you keep your circuit altitude the same.

HH is telling it how it shoulsd be done.

 

Using visual cues related to your aircraft will always be there. You might be able to prepare using references on the ground off GE for a new strip you plan on going to, but what do you use when you have to do a diversion or make a forced landing in a paddock?

 

You should be turning crosswind at 700ft AGL, your distance from the strip on downwind should be referenced off a part of your aircraft, ie a point on the wing or a point on the strut in a high wing. Turning base should be when the threshold is at a certain angle ( usually 45 degrees ) back over your shoulder. Then of course turn final to line up on the centre line.

 

Use these references and they will be with you no matter where you choose / have to land.

 

 

[old man emu]

Ugh!

 

You want to fly the most dangerous, high workload part of any flight with your head down in the cockpit?

 

1. Know your airplane's behaviour in the circuit.

 

2. Know where a reference point on your runway side wing lines up with the near edge of the runway while you are flying the downwind leg.

 

3. Know what the runway threshold looks like at 45 degrees over your shoulder.

 

4. Know where a reference point on your plane is when it's time to start your descending turn to come out on the runway centreline. Remember that your plane will drift away down the extension of the centreline if the wind is straight down the runway, and will drift sown and to the side of the same line if there is a crosswind.

 

Landing is the time when you fly the airplane. You are a pilot, not a navigator for the ten minutes or so it takes you to do a circuit. If you learn to fly a circuit with reference to points on your airplane, you will be able to fly it confidently to the ground.

 

If you are flying into an unfamiliar strip, there is no law that says you can't circle over it at 1500' AGL a couple of times to take a good look at the layout, but once you drop down to circuit height, landing on unfamiliar strips is the same as landing on your home strip.

 

Old Man Emu

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

this is the usual circuit for YWOL. for BOTH runway directions... runway 16-34. the circuit for 08-26 is to the north for both directions. but 08-26 is rarely used unless dictated by crosswind limits, noisy neighbours and all.basically try to avoid overflying the houses to the south and north.. crosswind/base legs.

I'll try not to annoy the neighbours tomorrow, but I can't make any promises!

 

 

[shu77]

08/26 is actually not permitted for circuits due to the neighbors, full stops only. As for 34, I find aiming for the shops (brightly coloured and Just to the left of Ultralights base leg diagram) is a good spot to aim for to keep you alligned. In a 170 with nil wind you can pretty much throttle to idle and glide in from there.

 

 

[Tomo]

I'd recommend getting to know your aircraft's approach angle (glide or whatever you do) and use an aiming point from the base turn... using ground reference points is handy for the first little bit of learning circuits, but after that you really need to rely on the aiming point and not old mates house type thing. If that makes sense

 

 

[J170 Owner]

When you fly a good circuit, where is the runway relative to you? On the wingtip (for a low wing plane) or halfway up the strut (high wing plane). Where ever it is for a good circuit is where the runway should be where ever you're flying. When to turn base? Some turn base when the runway end is 30 degrees behind the shoulder (45 seems too far for me), although that will depend on the wind and circuit traffic. I rarely use ground features to position myself in the circuit.

 

 

[Ultralights]

08/26 is actually not permitted for circuits due to the neighbors, full stops only. As for 34, I find aiming for the shops (brightly coloured and Just to the left of Ultralights base leg diagram) is a good spot to aim for to keep you alligned. In a 170 with nil wind you can pretty much throttle to idle and glide in from there.

Actually you can do circuits on 26, only 08 its not permitted.

 

 

[Thirsty]

I agree with the others who say forget about local landmarks and fly a "general" circuit that will work anywhere. I flew to YWOL recently for the first time and landed on 16 with our approach to the airfield over the escarpment from the west and it was pretty easy. I reckon you should time yourself in your own circuit and use those timings at YWOL taking account of the local restrictions as noted in ERSA.

 

You should be turning crosswind at 700ft AGL

Mick, are you saying just at YWOL or all the time? I was taught to turn xwind at 500' AGL and that's what I teach my students. I was taught that in GA in the 80's and RA recently.

 

 

[sfGnome]

I have a feeling that you may be over-thinking things a little bit, Ayav. I don't know exactly where you're up to in your navs, but I remember being similarly worried before flying to my first 'other' strip. When I got there, it just looked like an airstrip; fly the same height and you'll automatically fly the same distance from the strip and turn at the same points. Really, it does work (and you'll have your instructor with you as backup). Give it a shot and try going in without 'learning' the ground first and see if I'm right.

 

 

[ayavner]

Thanks guys. Not sure what you mean OME about having my head in the cockpit during the circuit? I am just talking a map to look at while i sit at work daydreaming about flying LOL. I am aware of the visual cues on the plane relative to the strip... All I was looking for, and I think I have achieved, is a visual reference to help me mentally prepare before I do go to "another" field. A few more pieces of information to store so there's less to process on the day.... no surprise to find myself over water, oh there's that football pitch, etc... sometimes I think people overthink the question, but that's OK its all good info, and always greatly appreciated to hear from all who have gone before me in this journey.

 

As to where I'm at in navs, haven't started that yet sfG, still working up to 1st solo :-)

 

 

[ayavner]

Yup yup, all on board, and never a hint of a suggestion that I planned to do anything other than orient myself to the airfield and all that.

 

Think of it this way... I am a pretty good driver, no accidents in over 25 years. But if I were going to be driving in France, I'd still like to look at a map before hand :)

 

Lots of good suggestions here, ALL of which are on board, particularly the ones about timing myself in the circuit, and of course good reminder OME that i could just overfly it first too!

 

 

 

[Thirsty]

Timed ccts will be close enough unless there is a huge wind blowing and even then I'm only suggesting you need to time the bit after joining midfield xwind so you know when to turn mid downwind. Another tip would be instead of joining mid downwind join further to the opposite threshold end thus giving yourself more time on downwind to get everything sorted out before base.

 

Sorry cfi, just my opinion.

 

 

[frank marriott]

Are you talking VFR or IFR

 

Even an IFR driver needs how to land without electronic help

 

Most electronic stuff in RAA type aircraft is not approved anyway

 

To get a perfect circuit from a google map is not being realistic . How do you do a precautionary search and land or a forced landing should that happen ( and at least one will happen).

 

My opinion is to learn to fly properly first. By all means use other devices as an aid AFTER you can fly without aids.

 

If you want to fly on instruments that's fine but it is not applicable to RAA and as IFR drivers will tell you if you cannot fly without aids then you will not pass a CIR rating as a big part of the course is based on being able to safely operate with failed equipment.

 

I am not against using current devices as an aid but be real they are not legal and if you NEED them then you are not flying VFR and it follows that the operation is outside the RAA rules. (And CASA VFR for that matter)

 

I believe if you learn and enjoy flying without aids then for Xcountry flying the uncertified devices make the experience even greater but reliance on devices of any kind other then a compass and watch then it is more head in the cockpit. NOT VFR

 

Maybe I am too old school but to even think about assistance to do a circuit would result in a less then friendly response from the generation of senior instructors that I learnt with.

 

Just my observations. Go for it by all means as the great thing as I am not a CFI no one has to prove to me that can fly without Electronic assistance so this is just an observation which may be of interest?

 

 

[Thirsty]

How does everyone else work out when to turn mid downwind after joining mid field xwind? I just fly for an amount of time, don't know how much I just judge it. Curious to hear what others do.

 

And cfi, no hope I'll be in tassie anytime soon, I fly jabs and no way I'll fly one over there! I do love your state though!

 

 

[Mick]

How does everyone else work out when to turn mid downwind after joining mid field xwind? I just fly for an amount of time, don't know how much I just judge it. Curious to hear what others do.

I just judge the distance from practise & measure it with my MkI eyeball.

 

 

[frank marriott]

certainly not IFR frank!

Yeh. My point is from my observations there is an over reliance on "electronic devices" to fly VFR Maybe I'm too conservative so I will buy out but I just could not helpmyself from commenting

 

Sometimes I should read and not hit the post reply button but that's life

 

FrankM