Can A Thread Realy Kill Anyone?

[farri]

On the other hand a thread like this can kill people, and just in recent months we've seen someone in an Ultralight kill himself and passenger trying to land after dark.

 

I copied the above statement from the thread 'Operating In The Dark'. The reason for this thread is that I thought the subject of a thread killing people,was worth some discussion.

 

In the above example of someone killing himself and passenger in trying to land after dark, I fail to see how that accident could be linked to any thread on any forum.

 

I believe there`s more chance of furthur accidents occuring by trying to put the blame or cause of a previous accident in the wrong place!

 

Frank.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

In both cases, you can clearly see that "People are idiots".

 

 

[Gwalch]

In both cases, you can clearly see that "People are idiots".

I agree.

It's like the old Lemmings theory.. if 1 jumps off a cliff will you do it as well??

 

Same applies here.. if someone mentions something in a thread.. do you have to copy that??

 

 

[Doug Evans]

Threads Don't kill " people people kill people "

 

Threads are here to enlighten and inform others of thing that other have done whether right or wrong it. Merely a tool to try educate or warn of problems out there what people do with information is entirey up to the person reading them and how they inturb the information listed .

 

 

[ayavner]

if someone is that impressionable, it is just a matter of time really...

 

 

[turboplanner]

On the other hand a thread like this can kill people, and just in recent months we've seen someone in an Ultralight kill himself and passenger trying to land after dark.I copied the above statement from the thread 'Operating In The Dark'. The reason for this thread is that I thought the subject of a thread killing people,was worth some discussion.

 

In the above example of someone killing himself and passenger in trying to land after dark, I fail to see how that accident could be linked to any thread on any forum.

 

I believe there`s more chance of furthur accidents occuring by trying to put the blame or cause of a previous accident in the wrong place!

 

Frank.

I agree with you there Frank. In the example I gave of a crash after dark there was no evidence of the pilot reading any thread anywhere, and nor was that inferred

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I think that it was a case of "Question without notice. Answer without thinking" in regards to a thread killing someone.

 

 

[Louis Moore]

I think we must remember the younger, and lets face it more technically able, will often be reading through forums and threads in those first impresionable years as a pilot/student where the brain is a sponge and not yet able to totally quantify good information from bs. A slither of a wrong idea, even if made via innocence, I guess could lead down the incorrect pathway!

 

I figure it's not really about can a thread kill, that seems to be the wrong question. Should we not be asking can a thread SAVE someones life.

 

On the other hand, I think these threads can kill, via starvation, because you just to glued to your computer screen to eat!!!

 

 

[fly_tornado]

spill the beans Louis, what did you do?

 

 

[Louis Moore]

spill the beans Louis, what did you do?

I was a lot younger, not as wise, very susceptible to others opinions and have since learnt better. I avoided becoming a statistic, a few times over after making some very unwise decisions. That's all you'll get out of me tornado, my lips are sealed to protect the valuable reputation I am sure I don't have on here

 

 

[turboplanner]

Well you now have a live case to debate.

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/operating-in-the-dark.48427/ tt thread

 

This guy has already hit power lines/wires, and fortunately survived, but in post #16 appears to be admitting to operating outside of first/last light, and seems to be reassured that this is OK by the thread discussion.

 

In this case taxying is probably not going to kill him, but he could do a couple of hundred thousand dollars worth of damage.

 

This supports my point that people read what you write in threads, and often act on it.

 

Two provocative lines made the subject thread dangerous:

 

1. the title "operating in the dark" - you can't do this in RA

 

2. "RAAus built for Night VFR, as a full light package" - Again, this doesn't legally exist.

 

Our mate in #16 took the answer he wanted to see, but makes no mention of the actual CAR link, the $18,000 training tag et==

 

So what's to stop another IYM reading this thread putting a light on his aircraft and trying a few touch and goes? Who's to tell him the thread covered prohibited subjects?

 

Going back to #16 with this guy, do we follow ayvaner's tip in this thread #5, and write him off?

 

Frank, you've campaigned a number of times lately about the PIC being the one to decide and that's true of the Prescriptive Legislation that many of grew up with, but that's been progressively changed for a couple of decades, so you have to be very wary about giving advice to abandon your duty of care and letting the PIC fend for himself. As Kaz pointed out only a couple of weeks ago this can be very expensive, and can involve criminal charges. I've recommended a few times that members should have a discussion with a public liability lawyer to bring themselves up to speed with the changes.

 

 

[farri]

Frank, you've campaigned a number of times lately about the PIC being the one to decide and that's true of the Prescriptive Legislation that many of grew up with, but that's been progressively changed for a couple of decades, so you have to be very wary about giving advice to abandon your duty of care and letting the PIC fend for himself. As Kaz pointed out only a couple of weeks ago this can be very expensive, and can involve criminal charges. I've recommended a few times that members should have a discussion with a public liability lawyer to bring themselves up to speed with the changes.

Turbo, I`m not even sure I should respond, but anyway!

 

Firstly: I`m totaly aware of duty of care and have been for many years.

 

Secondly: As I understand it, this is a privalely owned site and there are moderators who decide what can and can`t be posted here.

 

Thirdly: You`re way out of line when you say," Frank, You`ve campaigned a number of times lately about the PIC being the one to decide".

 

Let me make it quite clear! I have never campaigned about anything on this forum nor will I ever! I`ve only ever expressed my opinion/s and will continue to do just that, while I remain an active member.

 

As for giving advice, I wouldn`t give advice to anyone on anything and most certainly not on a public forum that is read world wide!

 

Frank.

 

 

[storchy neil]

turbo i for got to say safty and use common sence did i sorry mate neil

 

 

[turboplanner]

Thirdly: You`re way out of line when you say," Frank, You`ve campaigned a number of times lately about the PIC being the one to decide".

As for giving advice, I wouldn`t give advice to anyone on anything and most certainly not on a public forum that is read world wide!

Sorry, I shouldn't have used the word "campaigned", I should have used the word "written"

 

That constitutes advice.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Threads Don't kill " people people kill people "Threads are here to enlighten and inform others of thing that other have done whether right or wrong it. Merely a tool to try educate or warn of problems out there what people do with information is entirey up to the person reading them and how they inturb the information listed .

Doug, these are the wisest words spoken on this thread so far.

 

I am sure that, if I looked hard enough I could find threads on the internet about:

 

How to make your own illicit drugs

 

How to make your own high powered explosives

 

How to modify the suspension of your car by cutting off half of the coil springs

 

How to make your own atom bomb

 

How to commit suicide

 

How to ....etc. ....you get my drift

 

The threads don't kill. It is the person who reads the "advice", gets the items, plans, aeroplane, weapons, chemicals, etc. and does what she or he has just read and then goes out to kill themselves. You can never blame the thread. You can only blame the person.

 

Let's keep things in proper perspective.

 

 

[Tomo]

I would say no to a thread killing someone. I do get the point however, and it's more a case of getting the information incorrectly. In a personal voice/ears conversation you can pick up what a person is implying most of the time just by the sound of their voice. Whether they're being genuine or sarcastic or just telling fish stories. In text on a screen you can't tell that, and so life gets all very complicated all of a sudden. It's a high skill to be able to write something that everyone can figure out and not twist up into knots and get all flustered about. I'm in the least way even close to being able to do that myself!

 

It's a hard thing, because one doesn't learn if others don't speak, but in places like this, one doesn't know if the one that speaks is a desk pilot who's an expert at the rules, or a real life experienced person. The thing I find is that a lot of the experienced guys hate places like forums because they get in trouble from the rule experts because they might have been doing something slightly different to what the rule person thinks they should... and vise a versa. So we have a lot of advice from those that love to be heard, while the others sit in the background and cringe... but if they say something, it then becomes an argument between who is right and wrong and the poor person asking the question is forgotten about and life goes on... with the questioner still up the creek without a paddle, but also now unsure which way to sit in the boat because he said you face the front, but she said you face the back...

 

I think the Honourable Louis has said it all in that, we should be more concerned about whether a thread will Save someone. And to do that we need healthy discussion, not a he said, she said, do it or else situation. When you think about it we are really just shooting ourselves in the foot, what do most video games consist of these days? The TV is pretty much full of it, and it's one of the most disgusting crimes in the world today. Yet no one really notices... killing people, shooting, blood and gore etc etc... which kids sit and play with or watch, and yet we worry about someone talking about taxing at night, or whatever... it comes down to awareness and responsibility don't you think?

 

 

[eightyknots]

One other comment. The good advice in these threads has, no doubt, assisted quite a number of people from endangering themselves and therefore an alternative title of the thread could have been "Can a Thread Save People's Lives??"

 

 

[flyerme]

I would say no to a thread killing someone. I do get the point however, and it's more a case of getting the information incorrectly. In a personal voice/ears conversation you can pick up what a person is implying most of the time just by the sound of their voice. Whether they're being genuine or sarcastic or just telling fish stories. In text on a screen you can't tell that, and so life gets all very complicated all of a sudden. It's a high skill to be able to write something that everyone can figure out and not twist up into knots and get all flustered about. I'm in the least way even close to being able to do that myself!It's a hard thing, because one doesn't learn if others don't speak, but in places like this, one doesn't know if the one that speaks is a desk pilot who's an expert at the rules, or a real life experienced person. The thing I find is that a lot of the experienced guys hate places like forums because they get in trouble from the rule experts because they might have been doing something slightly different to what the rule person thinks they should... and vise a versa. So we have a lot of advice from those that love to be heard, while the others sit in the background and cringe... but if they say something, it then becomes an argument between who is right and wrong and the poor person asking the question is forgotten about and life goes on... with the questioner still up the creek without a paddle, but also now unsure which way to sit in the boat because he said you face the front, but she said you face the back...

 

I think the Honourable Louis has said it all in that, we should be more concerned about whether a thread will Save someone. And to do that we need healthy discussion, not a he said, she said, do it or else situation. When you think about it we are really just shooting ourselves in the foot, what do most video games consist of these days? The TV is pretty much full of it, and it's one of the most disgusting crimes in the world today. Yet no one really notices... killing people, shooting, blood and gore etc etc... which kids sit and play with or watch, and yet we worry about someone talking about taxing at night, or whatever... it comes down to awareness and responsibility don't you think?

well said Tomo.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Don't get too excited about the philosophy of it all; this thread was just a cheap shot at something I said in passing on another thread.

 

 

[farri]

Don't get too excited about the philosophy of it all; this thread was just a cheap shot at something I said in passing on another thread.

Your completely wrong there, it was no cheap shot! I`m not inerested in taking cheap shots at anyone! It was and still is an attempt at saying that it is the choices and decissions that are made by the individual, that finaly determine the outcome!

 

Where adults are cncerned, I do not and never will, subscribe to the theory, " Monkey see, Monkey do". That may apply to children.

 

Anyony in controll of an aircraft is considered to be an adult who should know what they are doing, therefore, responsible for their own actions.

 

A public forum is just that, a place to exchange opinions and ideas, not a place to get the most up to date rules and regulations.

 

Frank

 

 

[Tomo]

Come on Turbo, play nice!

 

 

[Admin]

One of the benefits of the way that I have set the site/resource up is that we not only have a group of hard working fantastic moderators (who even moderate me at times) but also a a couple of very highly skilled Mentors that step in and help steer threads in a subtle way...all this, along with user's posts, help to make threads somewhat self moderating to a point that the correct answer does come out. Sure someone may post a video of some kind of illegal flying however throughout the posted comments that follow, it is brought out that it is illegal flying and thus we are acting intelligently as a community of like minded individuals who really only want to see the right thing done for our fellow aviators.

 

I like the comments in this thread that say we should also be looking at how many lives this site has saved, and there are many. But not only lives saved but also the extra knowledge in proper maintenance and enhancing our flying skills are all so evident when looking at the site as a big picture rather then any small isolated incidence of inappropriate posting which does, almost always, eventually gets cleared up with accurate and more helpful information...whether the reader is a new starter or a highly skilled individual, and it must be noted that in our chosen field of recreation, we are always learning.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Don't get too excited about the philosophy of it all; this thread was just a cheap shot at something I said in passing on another thread.

Turbz, I think you initially lost a bit of credibility when you suggested that Jabiru brakes work less effectively after dark. Perhaps that needed a bit more clarification.

 

 

[facthunter]

Pity to see people getting steamed up because we are all pretty much on the same tram. There is such things as power of suggestion, and things like " I read it somewhere". Some will say "if that person can do it I will be able to do it better". There is plenty of overconfidence around. As for pilots behaving like adults Franco, there are plenty of instances where they did not. There are ( in my view) quite a few people who should not be near an aircraft because their brain processes dont help them remain situationally aware and they just don't get the fact that once you are a few feet off the ground your successful re alighting requires some basic processes being capably done, and a disciplined approach is essential to keep successfully doing it. As a bit of an example, once someone starts taking other people up, they change their attitude as a result of appreciating their new responsibility to that/ those passengers, so they fly carefully and don't overbank etc. Other clowns will scare the daylights out of anyone foolish enough to get in with them, by pushing their planes to their personal limits and beyond attempting to impress. Judgement is the issue with the correct priorities being appropriately applied. Some people have personalities that make this difficult, some are not sufficiently trained /experienced. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

Turbz, I think you initially lost a bit of credibility when you suggested that Jabiru brakes work less effectively after dark. Perhaps that needed a bit more clarification.

Now Eighty Ties, this is what I actually said”

 

“With the lighting power of the tiny little lights on RA aircraft and the brakes on the Jab, I wouldn't think of trying to taxy in the dark”

 

Operating in the dark...... #6

 

I would suggest there is nothing there which indicates the brakes are less effective after dark.

 

Mick in #13 is the one working himself up into a state of hilarity with his question:

 

“Do Jab brakes get even worse after dark? I don't own one so I wouldn't know! ”