Cost of aircraft ownership?

[dazza 38]

I wonder what it would cost for a fully enclosed trailer that would fit a Skyfox, Eurofox or a Onex.Or similar. Im guessing 7 K or so.That would eliminate the cost of hangarage.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I plan to get a plane with fold up wings to trailer around requiring no hanger. If it doesn't have fold up wings, a hack saw and some door hinges will solve the problem

Sapphire:

I had a trike that I used to trailer around and go flight-seeing with. I can tell you from that experience, aircraft do not like being bounced around on roads. I thought the trike was pretty robust when I bought it, but trailering it induced a few problems, not the least of which was a split in the fuel tank.

 

 

[Sapphire]

I wonder what it would cost for a fully enclosed trailer that would fit a Skyfox, Eurofox or a Onex.Or similar. Im guessing 7 K or so.That would eliminate the cost of hangarage.

I have a boat trailer that I thought of ripping off the rollers and laying a floor to make an a/c trailer. It had a 20 foot boat on it which I sold alone for $600 as is. The whole thing I bought for $250. Lots of boat trailers around with unfinished project boats on top going for a song.

 

Sapphire:I had a trike that I used to trailer around and go flight-seeing with. I can tell you from that experience, aircraft do not like being bounced around on roads. I thought the trike was pretty robust when I bought it, but trailering it induced a few problems, not the least of which was a split in the fuel tank.

Gliders are trailered around a lot and they are built to minimum weight. Can't see any bouncing that would be worse than an normal stalled landing.l However fold up wings cant be towed at normal highway speed unless protected [enclosed]

 

 

[dazza 38]

Hi Sapphire, I big boat trailer would be a excellent base to build fully enclosed aircraft trailer.I reckon.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Gliders are trailered around a lot and they are built to minimum weight. Can't see any bouncing that would be worse than an normal stalled landing.l However fold up wings cant be towed at normal highway speed unless protected [enclosed]

Gliders are built a lot more simply than "real" airplanes. They don't have a heavy motor on an engine mount for a start. The bouncing from trailering may be about the same magnitude as a normal heavy-ish landing, but unless you do about 3,000 heavy landings a day, it's not quite the same as trailering (for any distance that is). Also, the bouncing that an airplane gets on a trailer (especially on our brilliant highways) is a LOT worse than what you are experiencing in the car.

It's really NOT a good idea trailering aircraft.

 

 

[Sapphire]

Hi Sapphire, I big boat trailer would be a excellent base to build fully enclosed aircraft trailer.I reckon.

Sure Dazza, and you dont have to get one with electic brakes as the plane will be much lighter than any boat it ever carried. Here in WA new regulations require if trailer weight and boat weight are more than 750 kg you need electric brakes. Though I see lots of big trailered boats still going around without e brakes

 

 

[Sapphire]

Gliders are built a lot more simply than "real" airplanes. They don't have a heavy motor on an engine mount for a start. The bouncing from trailering may be about the same magnitude as a normal heavy-ish landing, but unless you do about 3,000 heavy landings a day, it's not quite the same as trailering (for any distance that is). Also, the bouncing that an airplane gets on a trailer (especially on our brilliant highways) is a LOT worse than what you are experiencing in the car.It's really NOT a good idea trailering aircraft.

The sort of vibration you get in flight would be the same as trailering over a rough road eg. continual high frequency vibration from the engine and the continual lower frequency vibration from turbulance. However continued trailering on rough road would just add to your maintenance bill. If you do most of the travel on normal paved roads at a sensible speed, I can't see a significant problem.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Could always modify the suspension, with coils, airbags etc I guess.The soften the bumps .

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Don't tell Tomo about the trailer thing...

 

 

[Gentreau]

I'm interested that some of you say that you don't insure.

 

What about third party and public liability, isn't that obligatory in Australia ??

 

 

[Tomo]

Don't tell Tomo about the trailer thing...

Yeah but I built my fuel tank strong, so it will never split on rough roads... Seriously though, whoever made the trailer for my plane did a good job as it is pretty much all held very well, and being fairly big rides fairly smoothly - naturally you just drive to the conditions and there's not usually an issue.

 

 

[Guest nunans]

I'm interested that some of you say that you don't insure. isn't that obligatory in Australia ??

Raa membership includes the only insurance that I have, and I'm happy with that.

 

250k for injuries to a passenger or student in my aircraft or an Raa aircraft that I'm PIC of,

 

and 10mil for other persons or property outside of my aircraft.

 

(The above is my interpretation if you want the real info look it up)

 

I don't choose to waste money on insuring my cheap little plane, it's simply not worth enough to spend the money on and I'd have more pressing concerns if I bent it. It's just another thing that makes a low cost plane cheaper to own each year.

 

 

[Av8ta]

Well, I think I'll give up on boats and hot Cars as they are not bang for ya buck exciting like flying as I'm currently sitting on the side of

 

the road in my stroked 351 Cleveland powered 1977 ford with heaps of horse power, looks tough and currently has engine fan buried in radiator! BLOODY CARS, I'd rather be flying!!!!The mathematical equation for cars is modified x horsepower = headaches. As soon as you make one modification it opens up a can of worms that seems to make many other modifications needed. Building street machines is a sickness! 351 Cleveland still runs tough, how much room is in a Jabirus engine compartment? Ha ha.

 

 

[rankamateur]

Well, I think I'll give up on boats and hot Cars as they are not bang for ya buck exciting like flying as I'm currently sitting on the side ofthe road in my stroked 351 Cleveland powered 1977 ford with heaps of horse power, looks tough and currently has engine fan buried in radiator! BLOODY CARS, I'd rather be flying!!!!The mathematical equation for cars is modified x horsepower = headaches. As soon as you make one modification it opens up a can of worms that seems to make many other modifications needed. Building street machines is a sickness! 351 Cleveland still runs tough, how much room is in a Jabirus engine compartment? Ha ha.

Just think of the mods you would need to get your weight and balance right, you think cars are a challenge, your challenge hasn't started yet.

 

 

[Av8ta]

http://www.raa.asn.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/Allianz-certificate-of-currency.pdf

 

That's the link for raa insurance through Allianz.

 

 

[cscotthendry]

Raa membership includes the only insurance that I have, and I'm happy with that.250k for injuries to a passenger or student in my aircraft or an Raa aircraft that I'm PIC of,

 

and 10mil for other persons or property outside of my aircraft.

 

(The above is my interpretation if you want the real info look it up)

 

I don't choose to waste money on insuring my cheap little plane, it's simply not worth enough to spend the money on and I'd have more pressing concerns if I bent it. It's just another thing that makes a low cost plane cheaper to own each year.

+1 for this. I "self-insure" my aircraft. That is, if I bend it or it gets destroyed, then I'll replace it. I put some money away and get the interest on it rather than pay profits for a mega-corp insurance company. You can bet that the premiums you pay to insurance companies are designed such that even if you do make a claim, they still make a profit off you.

My home and contents insurance premiums went through the roof this year in spite of the fact that I'm in an area that can't flood. Why? Because the insurance companies had to pay out for the floods. Nevermind that they've all been collecting premiums since 1974. Now they want to make up all that they laid out and do it in one year from EVERYBODY.

 

 

[Tomo]

+1 for this. I "self-insure" my aircraft. That is, if I bend it or it gets destroyed, then I'll replace it. I put some money away and get the interest on it rather than pay profits for a mega-corp insurance company.

Now that's a clever idea!!

 

 

[cscotthendry]

It works for me, but may not work for others. If you have borrowed money to buy the plane, then you probably couldn't afford to replace it outright if you totalled it in say a ground loop or it got destroyed in a hangar fire. Or maybe you might not be able to afford a new engine if you had a prop strike. In that case it might make sense to buy insurance.

 

 

[storchy neil]

to those who say you cant have a plane on trailer and tow it around with out doing damage to it

 

i had a mobile home bedford bus 85 ks an hour (down hill with a tail wind) towing my plane around

 

tyres at 16 to 18 pounds per inch very light springs to suit

 

plane in cradle so as plane was not tied to actual trailer

 

cradle cusioned to take out jaring between trailer and cradle

 

insurance i did have to cover my plane while it was on the trailer and traveling around as well as abitno flight and flying schools

 

warning dont insure with vero insurance refer to storch for sale neil

 

 

[dazza 38]

Everything I own , vehicles, motobike, house etc etc is insured, but if I had a aircraft that cost me say $25 000 and insurance was $3500 a year for hull insurance. I wouldnt bother with hull insurance.I would take the calculated risk.

 

 

[Sapphire]

Like my boat, the next plane I buy will be cheap [<$10k.] I can sink the uninsured boat or total the a/c and be laughing all the way home. A $35k plane costs about $2000 a year to insure so if after 10 years use it is totaled, you only lost $15k. If you are a careful operator, all of the above will probably never happen

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Those of us who have travelled OS may see this discussion in a different light; we are so fortunate to be able to have even backyards, let alone cars, bikes and aeroplanes. I will never complain about paltry increases in the price of our sport.

 

 

[68volksy]

We've done detailed figures on both a J170 and a Gazelle. J170 is $150/hour to hire and Gazelle is $135/hour to hire. Costings involved everything including opportunity cost of the funds invested (the calculations were used in cross-hire arrangements). Break-even hours for the Jabiru came at 3.4 hours per week and breakeven for the Gazelle came in at 3.1 hours per week. If you exclude the opportunity cost and depreciation then the break-even was about 1.6 hours for each aircraft. These figures included L2/LAME costs for all maintenance as they're used in the flying school as well as sink funds for engine and prop.

 

That's a good base to work back from anyway. Trade the break-even point of about 1.6 hours per week off against the benefits of owning your own and the simple fact that everyone wants their own aircraft. It's a little different from the boat/motorcycle/sportscar argument though as there is a readily available source of machines for hire.

 

 

[Mark11]

All I can say is that it's hard to add up and I can't be bothered, so it just costs something...

 

For me, it's pretty cheap - Microlight.

 

But if I keep going with my future plans, it could be a lot

 

.... Of fun, so who cares!

 

 

[Gentreau]

We've done detailed figures on both a J170 and a Gazelle. J170 is $150/hour to hire and Gazelle is $135/hour to hire. Costings involved everything including opportunity cost of the funds invested (the calculations were used in cross-hire arrangements). Break-even hours for the Jabiru came at 3.4 hours per week and breakeven for the Gazelle came in at 3.1 hours per week. If you exclude the opportunity cost and depreciation then the break-even was about 1.6 hours for each aircraft. These figures included L2/LAME costs for all maintenance as they're used in the flying school as well as sink funds for engine and prop.

I'd be very interested to see the calculations, if not the actual figures, to see all the items you've included and how you've calculated/estimated them.

 

Could you share them please ?