What happened at Jamestown today

[Jabiru Phil]

I left about 6th from the air spectacular, which was a great day

 

In the air I heard some commotion at the line up area. Back home I heard that a war bird had an altercation with a Jab on the piano keys.

 

Any reports?

 

 

[flindersflyer]

I left about 6th from the air spectacular, which was a great dayIn the air I heard some commotion at the line up area. Back home I heard that a war bird had an altercation with a Jab on the piano keys.

Any reports?

I was monitoring 126.7 and heard warbird call for clearance for take off asap due overheating. He was on piano keys. A jab pulled out in front called rolling. I've no idea why he pulled out onto the runway with an aircraft already lined up. The P51 also started his roll and I thought, "Is nobody at YJST base watching." The P51 pilot must have seen a wing tip of the Jab and kicked his aircraft hard starboard, his port wing glancing across the top of the Jabs starboard wing.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Jees ... that was bloody close ... not a happy chap I would imagine.

 

Those big Merlins overheat real quick if you don't get them rolling fairly quickly. I heard Col Pay many years ago abuse control for holding him up on a takeoff clearance in the Spitfire, saying something like if you don't give me immediate clearance I will have to shut down right here and block the taxiway right where I am ... and he had immediately before warned them he had a very limited taxi time due overheat potential.

 

 

[Tomo]

Ouch!

 

 

[turboplanner]

Just another day with today's level of radio standards. CASA let it get down to this level, CASA needs to fix it.

 

Hard to believe the Jab would have just cut the warbird off if it was lined up. Maybe they were both facing the strip at the time?

 

 

[kevinfrost]

I was third in the line at the time waiting to enter 34. The Mustang stated I think three, at least two times he had to go as he was starting to over heat. He was stationed behind the keys lined up for 34. The early mod Jab first in line at the time, taxis out onto 34 and line up. The Mustang says he has to go and powers on unaware there is an A/C in front of him. Luckily he is made aware there is a aircraft in front of him, he swerves to the right just missing the Jab by inches. The Jab thinks he is hit and rolls of to the left hand side of the strip. The mustang and Kittyhawk taxi back to cool down. From where I was and that was very close it looked like it was a miss. I could be wrong.

 

The Jametown airshow would be the best country airshow around. Stuf ups like this can only lead to the demise of such events.

 

Insurance companies won't want cover such events or make the cost prohibitive and let's not forget there's a lot of money tied up here, or we're going to all have binoculars to get a glimps of these beautiful aircraft.

 

I haven't got the answers but I think three things should have happened in this situation.

 

(1) The Jab jockey should have known and taken on board the heating problems of the warbirds, wait and let them depart. A couple of minutes at best. Very inconsiderate I thought.

 

(2) The Mustang could have positioned himself at an angle to 34 so he hade a good view of the strip before rolling.

 

(3) There should have been a marshal at the runway access point where both lots of traffic were converging.

 

No exaggeration here. That Jab was so close to becoming confetti and had the Mustang pilot not handled the aircraft the way he did it might have been a different outcome for a few of us in the line up. And that would have pissed me off and spoilt an otherwise excellent airshow. Thank you Jamestown and I hope this incident does not deter the owners of these beautiful aircraft making them available for us tradgics to view.

 

 

[turboplanner]

See#31

 

 

[flindersflyer]

Yes Kevin. At an event like this, marshalling is a must and it'd be good to hear from YJST Base whilst traffic was leaving. I got the impression from monitoring area freq. that the the parties over now we can relax.

 

 

[Gentreau]

Also sounds like a possible traffic management or organisational problem if two aircraft could enter the same runway from different points at a busy time.

 

 

[Hongie]

I could find this out but I'm tired just did night shift.

 

Is Jamestown ctaf?

 

Just confused as its said the p51 was asking for clearance, whereas the jab basically was basically making a ctaf taxi/entering call.

 

Maybe I'm reading this wrong, as I said, nightshift blues.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Good point

 

 

[Tomo]

According to the mighty ERSA YJST is CTAF 126.7

 

 

[turboplanner]

But what was its status on the day?

 

 

[kevinfrost]

I spoke to James Town be fore heading that way and was told it was standard procedures (CTAF).

 

10.30 was shut off for inbound. The show was controlled by by ground on 126.7. The departing aircraft after the show were using standard CTAF procedures although some of the war birds were still communicating with Jamestown control on 126.7

 

A little communication and consideration would have avoided this situation.

 

 

[dazza 38]

I am glad that no aircraft or person was hurt in the incident. That is the main thing.

 

 

[kiwicrusader]

I was spraying near Jamestown during the show and I was coordinating with Jamestown ground on 126.7. As I I understood the notams it was a danger area from 10.00am local time til 4.00pm local time. Display aircraft were controlled by Jamestown ground on 126.7. It became a restricted area from 3.15 til 3.45 due to the roulettes display. After 4pm it was business as usual with alot of aircraft leaving with no control or coordination from ground so ctaf rules apply.

 

On another note the 'he' flying the mustang was actually a she and from what I heard, yes it was very close to a catastrophe.

 

 

[Gentreau]

.......After 4pm it was business as usual with alot of aircraft leaving with no control or coordination from ground so ctaf rules apply.....

So the question has to be asked whether it is appropriate to revert to CTAF rules when there are a lot of aircraft wanting to get away at the same time.

 

Also, whether it is a good idea to allow the use of multiple entry points onto the active departure runway.

 

 

[kiwicrusader]

Gentreau, I agree and I am sure the Jamestown Airshow organisers will look into this.

 

I think the problem will be though who would take responsibility for all those movements, especially with no transponders, no tower to view all aircraft from etc.... Remember this is an uncontrolled aerodrome.

 

 

[turboplanner]

The responsibility on that day was still clear cut if the above reports are correct. Was the Mustang calling for clearance from someone who was not scheduled to be there?

 

 

[Vev]

The Mustang pilot is a she and not a he!

 

The incident has been reported and will be investigated.

 

I have to say very little of what I have read here aligns with the people involved!

 

Cheers

 

Vev

 

 

[kevinfrost]

I did call the pilot of the mustang "he". "Judy or whoever, I apologise". I was busy listening to the radio chatter and the pilots discussing the overheating problems to take notice of the voice gender.

 

 

[Gentreau]

.... Remember this is an uncontrolled aerodrome.

So is Blois, but they organised ground marshalling to make it as safe as possible. Take a look at the english blog for details

 

http://ulmblois2012.blogspot.fr/2012/07/departures-will-normally-be-from-runway.html

 

 

[turboplanner]

Oh

 

 

[floydd]

I find it very difficult to understand how runway infringements such as these still exist, especially on a runway such as this where you can see either end. A simple but good look either way will tell you there are or are not aircraft on the runway or approaching or departing. If there is someone already lined up it must be assumed they are going to roll, unless clear and specific informatiom directly from them is assured otherwise. The Mustang used the radio as far as I can see, giving clear intentions. Judy had lined her aircraft up oblique to the runway so as to see aircraft on final and any on the airstrip. Unfortunately, the departing aircraft had to taxi down the last portion(~30metres) of the runway before turning and lining up. This led to a line of other aircraft being down the runway a little and some decided to pull out of line, enter the runway and depart. It seems just as Judy was rolling, the Jabiru decided to pull out of line, enter the runway and takeoff without warning. I believe it was Judy's passenger who saw the aircraft veer in front and immediately notified her. I'm sure the Jabiru pilot has learnt his lesson, fortunately costing little but the embarrassment and an extra nights cost for Judy and passenger who decided it was better to stay the night after such a close call. It's obvious now a marshal is needed when aircraft are not entering from the end of a runway. I think a little lest haste and more planning by some pilots, especially if suffering `get home itis` would alleviate the problem which happens at most airshows. We have held several airshows similar to Jamestown, and trying to minimise risks such as the above is top priority, but things always slip through the loop and are not realised until the day is over. Well done to the organisers for a brilliant day and to ALL the aircraft and pilots who flew in to make it so great. Safe flying

 

 

[turboplanner]

See #31