Soleair Posted October 16, 2012 Posted October 16, 2012 Hello. I'm new to this site, but it looks very useful in my aim to get back into flying. I would appreciate any advice, comments or opinions (preferably constructive!). I have recently moved back to Australia after many years in the UK, & I want to start flying again. I used to fly hang gliders, and later microlights, but all my microlight flying was on 3 axis machines. I now have the chance to make a short strip on my bush block near the Blue Mountains. I can probably find about 150 metres of reasonably level grass, with trees at either end up to 5 metres high. So I'm guessing this limits my choice of trike to a lighter machine, or one with a big fat engine to blast off the ground. I would like to be able to take a passenger, but I'm thinking that wouldn't be possible within the limitations of my proposed airstrip. The other limitation is money (aint it always?). My maximum budget would be $20,000. I don't mind buying secondhand, provided fairly low hours machine is available at that price. I did briefly consider a powered paraglider, but having flown one as a glider for a bit, I'm not convinced they have a sufficient operating window of wind strengths to suitable for flying other than on calm days. So can anyone recommend a suitable wing? I like the look of Airborne's V-Lite and T-Lite trikes, but would a secondhand naked trike with a (preferably) Streak wing be better for turbulence or stronger winds? Finally, can anyone point me in the right direction to find out what the rules are regarding a private airstrip (registration, limitations, etc)? Many thanks Bruce
skeptic36 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Hi Bruce, The smaller the wing the better in will be in rough conditions, but the more room you will need to get off the ground. With regard to your 150 meter strip, it is probably enough for an experienced pilot with a stol trike, but my concern is, do you have somewhere to go in the event of efato, and do you have room for a go around. If not, go to somewhere where you do. Regards Bill 1
damo Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Hi Bruce, 150m strip with trees at each end is probably a bit too short for a trike. For a $20K budget I would be looking at a second-hand Airborne Outback with Wizard wing. It would be capable of short strip flying in the right hands. Cheers, Damian
Guest Andys@coffs Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 On the www.airborne.com.au website, there is a specific section that has all the POH manuals. Looking at a 582 based trike with a wizzard wing they apparently need a runway of the order of 350m with T/O and Landing lengths at max weight of 240m and 210m respectively. A 912 based airborne has roughly the same TO requirements but longer landing rollout so nothing to be gained by doing that. Andy
503 Posted October 17, 2012 Posted October 17, 2012 Starting to look like back to powered parachute ,only good up to 15knt of wind
Mark11 Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 On a windy day, you can takeoff and land in less than 50m... But that's the day for hard work in the air!
LimaMike08 Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Maybe a gyro would be better suited to your strip. Plenty around to suit your budget.
Deskpilot Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 Maybe a gyro would be better suited to your strip. Plenty around to suit your budget. Yep, have to agree here, especially if it has the jump start capability. Make sure you get the appropriate training first though.
Guest Andys@coffs Posted October 25, 2012 Posted October 25, 2012 On a windy day, you can takeoff and land in less than 50m... But that's the day for hard work in the air! Mark Be careful in what you say, the figures that Airborne print in their manuals are for a known set of standard weather conditions (temps and pressures, nil wind) with the aircraft operating at its maximum load conditions. You may well be able to take off and land in 50m but you have in no way disclosed what circumstances they are. for example Im pretty sure I could land in less than 50m, if the strip was long wet grass and was at a significant up hill run and had a 20kt headwind, Im equally sure I couldnt land in 50m if the strip was bitumen, down slope and because its a one way strip I had a tail wind component.... Those here who are experienced will know all this and wonder why I bothered to post, remember that those reading these posts dont always have that same level of knowledge and experience. Furthermore, you may well be able to do as you say for years up until one day it goes pear shaped...In the investigation they wont say well he was Ok for years before it went bad, they will simply say pilot error, chose to operate at a landing area that did not comply with the manufacturers minimum stated conditions. If you have insurance then at that point you probably no longer have insurance that you can call on.... Andy
Keenaviator Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 150 metres with trees at both ends! You'll probably get away with it for a while as I did flying my Pegasus Quantum out of a 200 metre strip. In The end I decided that I wanted to continue to enjoy flying along with many other activities so moved to a proper strip. Laurie.
Mark11 Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Andy? Not disagreeing with you, but have you flown a trike?
Mark11 Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 All, Published take off & landing distances for 582 airbourne edge x trike is 218m for TAke off and 228m for landing This distance is based on the following:- - Max take-off weight - No wind - Level, dry grass - At sea level - includes distance to reach 50ft above ground Now, when one has a 20knot headwind (maximum allowable at ground level) one can take off and land in a much shorter distance. For the recorded, the 50m I mentioned in a previous post did not include the distance for the trike to reach or descend 50ft - it was estimated ground roll. Always read your POH, get training before operating your flying machine. Hope this sets those clarify my previous post! Regards Mark
Guest Andys@coffs Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Andy? Not disagreeing with you, but have you flown a trike? Yes I have my trike endorsement.Learnt in an edge X classic at Gawler in SA and have one in the garage....
Mark11 Posted October 26, 2012 Posted October 26, 2012 Yes I have my trike endorsement.Learnt in an edge X classic at Gawler in SA and have one in the garage.... Good to know Well, I'm still learning and loving it! Except last flight when it was turbulent! The shortest runway I've used is 700m and unless I was Jim Twedo, I wouldn't be landing on 150m runways with tress at both ends! Regards Mark
alf jessup Posted October 27, 2012 Posted October 27, 2012 Hello. I'm new to this site, but it looks very useful in my aim to get back into flying.I would appreciate any advice, comments or opinions (preferably constructive!). I have recently moved back to Australia after many years in the UK, & I want to start flying again. I used to fly hang gliders, and later microlights, but all my microlight flying was on 3 axis machines. I now have the chance to make a short strip on my bush block near the Blue Mountains. I can probably find about 150 metres of reasonably level grass, with trees at either end up to 5 metres high. So I'm guessing this limits my choice of trike to a lighter machine, or one with a big fat engine to blast off the ground. I would like to be able to take a passenger, but I'm thinking that wouldn't be possible within the limitations of my proposed airstrip. The other limitation is money (aint it always?). My maximum budget would be $20,000. I don't mind buying secondhand, provided fairly low hours machine is available at that price. I did briefly consider a powered paraglider, but having flown one as a glider for a bit, I'm not convinced they have a sufficient operating window of wind strengths to suitable for flying other than on calm days. So can anyone recommend a suitable wing? I like the look of Airborne's V-Lite and T-Lite trikes, but would a secondhand naked trike with a (preferably) Streak wing be better for turbulence or stronger winds? Finally, can anyone point me in the right direction to find out what the rules are regarding a private airstrip (registration, limitations, etc)? Many thanks Bruce Bruce, 150 mt might look reasonably long on the ground, wait till you come in on final it will look 20meters long, I used to fly in an out of a 300 mtr strip over trees (one end in a 912 SST) and believe me it looked small. 150 mts in my opinion is way to short if it has trees on approach and departure, as Skeptic said EFATO your possibly only going one place. Cheers Alf
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