kaz3g Posted October 20, 2012 Share Posted October 20, 2012 Yesterday I turned final for 18 and heard a 2 seat GA aircraft (OP) holding on the taxiway for me. All good! As usual, the two wind socks were giving different information, but the smoke from a heap of leaves burning behind the hangar told me the wind had picked up and was due west. I called "going around and joining for 27". The OP called "rolling" and from then on my pax and I -- and the whole world on that frequency -- shared the ensuing conversation between the two guys in the OP which roamed widely between the instructional and the personal. Some of it VERY personal. It would have been funny, because of some of the things said, but the PIC told his student he had no idea where the other aircraft -- ME! -- had got to and also blocked out all traffic from me and anyone else arriving or departing at the CTAF. I stayed at 500' for my modified circuit and watched him departing east, slightly south of me, as I landed to the west. I don't know why the mike was open. Perhaps the button stuck or perhaps the student was hanging onto the stick a bit too hard and had his thumb wrapped over it. But the carrier wave noise should have been sufficient warning that something was not right even if the "silence" wasn't. Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thirsty Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I went flying with a mate last week with him as pic. He called rolling and took off and I noticed the Intercom wasn't working for me ie he couldn't hear me talk but I could hear him fine. I pulled my plugs out and plugged them back in but no good. It wasn't til we were mid downwind he realised he was holding the ptt button down! He has no idea why he did that and he's never done it before, strange but it can happen it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sapphire Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Black box recording reveal what airline pilots talk about. Prior to one big crash the pilots were discussing the price of tomatoes. Now they are coming up with "acoustic sterile cockpit" during landing etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Human Factors - a pointer to other potential HF habits I'm sure you'll be able to give him a quiet word Kaz. Instructors like that breed habits in pilots and the cycle continues. I just would have said "Woman Pilot........." (No I only made that up, it actually takes guts to make a circuit change to suit the aircraft rather than just push on and squeak it in). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 This has given me another idea (remember the VHF comm repeater?). It wouldn't be too hard to add a light on the IP that comes on when the PTT is pressed. If the light was directly in front of the pilot (say near the ASI), it might help with this. Also, I thought most aircraft radios had a "stuck PTT" function in their firmware that cutoff the TX if it was on for more than a preset time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
facthunter Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Good idea Scott. You make communication impossible for all aircraft for miles on that frequency. It's important NOT to do it. Nev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turboplanner Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I was interested to see Facthunter jumping in so quickly on that idea, reminded my of a story from the old days of TAA and T Jets. The Captain, and let's remember FH was one then, had just reassured the passengers that they would have a smooth flight and would be landing in Brisbane in 90 minutes time. There was a particularly good looking hostess on the flight (sadly both those descriptions are not allowed any more) that evening. Forgetting to release the mic button, the Captain began to tell the co-pilot in fine detail what he was going to do to the hostie when they got to Brisbane. In horror the hostess raced to the cockpit to try and shut him up. She'd almost made it when a little old lady held her arm out and said "You don't have to run dear, he said we wouldn't be getting there for 90 minutes!" 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rick-p Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I like my setup, in ordr to talk on the radio other than the intercom you have to switch over to the radio, then operate PTT and then all transmissions leave the aircraft once finished go back to purely the intercom function.It leaves no doubt as to what is the situation because the intercom is 90% 0ff and the radio is 100% on or 100% off with intercom 100% on of course you can hear incoming radio calls. Anyway in the Lambarda because it is a Jabiru motor installed with an Italian GT prop (super quite) you can quite clearly hear everything the other POB says without the need to use headsets if you so desired and still here your radio through a loud speaker. Just love the combination. Rick-p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Some well designed radios go beep-boop-beep after a timeout period of (say) 30 seconds to several minutes to let you know. Not seen any on the aircraft bands yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfGnome Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 I was amused one day to hear an instructor saying (over the radio) "see that button you're holding down. You shouldn't be..." Click. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Howard Hughes Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Some well designed radios go beep-boop-beep after a timeout period of (say) 30 seconds to several minutes to let you know. Not seen any on the aircraft bands yet. Really advanced ones turn off after 30 seconds!Important to remember open mics can (and do) happen to anyone, lets not be too harsh if it's a once off! PS: Whenever I transmit, I always look for the TX light going on and then going off. Of course this is mostly so I don't transmit on the wrong radio, but also as a double check for an open mic! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyerme Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 my push to talk has a lot of white noise when pushed ,but the intercom is quite so No chance of a mistake. Not sure why the radio has a lot of white noise? my transmissions come threw clear im told. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J170 Owner Posted October 21, 2012 Share Posted October 21, 2012 Yep, I had a transceiver (144Mhz) that had an adjustable timeout from 30 seconds to 5 minutes. If the button was held down past this timeout period, the warning warble sounded then the radio dropped back to receive. Yes, many of us have done it but a stuck button can (and has in the past) lasted for hours. It is amusing though to hear folks calling the person with a stuck button - forgetting that that person is in transmit and will not hear jack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Yesterday I turned final for 18 and heard a 2 seat GA aircraft (OP) holding on the taxiway for me. All good!As usual, the two wind socks were giving different information, but the smoke from a heap of leaves burning behind the hangar told me the wind had picked up and was due west. I called "going around and joining for 27". The OP called "rolling" and from then on my pax and I -- and the whole world on that frequency -- shared the ensuing conversation between the two guys in the OP which roamed widely between the instructional and the personal. Some of it VERY personal. It would have been funny, because of some of the things said, but the PIC told his student he had no idea where the other aircraft -- ME! -- had got to and also blocked out all traffic from me and anyone else arriving or departing at the CTAF. I stayed at 500' for my modified circuit and watched him departing east, slightly south of me, as I landed to the west. I don't know why the mike was open. Perhaps the button stuck or perhaps the student was hanging onto the stick a bit too hard and had his thumb wrapped over it. But the carrier wave noise should have been sufficient warning that something was not right even if the "silence" wasn't. Kaz The (alternative) moral of the story is that all aerodromes with ambigious/ambidextrous winds should have piles of leaves burning near the runway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 PS: Whenever I transmit, I always look for the TX light going on and then going off. Of course this is mostly so I don't transmit on the wrong radio, but also as a double check for an open mic! Not all radios have TX lamps (although, I think it should be a mandatory design feature and they should FLASH after ten seconds too). The time-out function is also a necessary design feature but older radios do not have it. A time-out function can also prevent 'cooking' the final RF amplifier but that's another story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frank marriott Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 It is a bit like wheels up. Some have and some are yet to do it as the old saying goes. I haven't done the wheels up thing yet, but guilty of the stuck TX button. I hope not to visit either in the future but it is all part of flying and learning. I know this is all in the past as all RAA licenced pilots (me included) have done a HF course. Not relevant to my CPL but did the course to keep my RAA lic current. Commensence is what is required , not more courses trying to legislate commensence. FrankM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bandit12 Posted October 22, 2012 Share Posted October 22, 2012 Frank, I believe that every organisation or government that has tried to legislate (or regulate) common sense so far has failed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Frank, I believe that every organisation or government that has tried to legislate (or regulate) common sense so far has failed. A good explanation for this is that very few such organisations or government departments have exhibited common sense themselves. The ultimate proof is that body's need to "legislate"/"develop policies" for common sense. The reality is that common sense needs no legislation. As soon as a particular issue is legislated for, common sense is expected to be thrown out of the window about that particular matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cscotthendry Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Not all radios have TX lamps (although, I think it should be a mandatory design feature and they should FLASH after ten seconds too). The time-out function is also a necessary design feature but older radios do not have it. A time-out function can also prevent 'cooking' the final RF amplifier but that's another story. Even for aircraft that don't have a TX light, it's a fairly easy matter to set one up. It might require replacing the Single Pole Single Throw PTT switch with a Double Pole Single Throw switch. The extra pole of the switch can then be used to control a light mounted on the IP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eightyknots Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Even for aircraft that don't have a TX light, it's a fairly easy matter to set one up. It might require replacing the Single Pole Single Throw PTT switch with a Double Pole Single Throw switch. The extra pole of the switch can then be used to control a light mounted on the IP. Definitely worth doing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M61A1 Posted October 23, 2012 Share Posted October 23, 2012 Even for aircraft that don't have a TX light, it's a fairly easy matter to set one up. It might require replacing the Single Pole Single Throw PTT switch with a Double Pole Single Throw switch. The extra pole of the switch can then be used to control a light mounted on the IP. :amazon:Why not use that other pole to earth out the ignition? Would solve any engine induced rf issues as well as ensuring minimum time with Tx held. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boingk Posted October 30, 2012 Share Posted October 30, 2012 Why not just run a lead from the PTT button hookup to an LED mounted on the dash? Eash, cheap and very accessible. By the by, the 'have done and have yet to do' type comments really grind my gears. I'm also a motorcyclist and sometimes hear it from people about coming off; otherwise known as crashing your motorcycle off the road. Planes are the same with missed checks, gear up, comm left on whatever. If you f*** up then you are doing it wrong. Plain and simple. Learn well in the first place then back that up with frequent and meaningful flight experiences and you shouldn't make severe errors. As for akoustic sterile cockpit... well... I don't think its a bad idea. I like to do it in my plane and the few times I've taken somone up with me (apart from initial instructors etc) I have enforced it - Matt/Emma/Whoever, we'll be landing soon and I'll have to concentrate a bit and make some radio calls so its best to be quiet till we're back on the ground, okay? Cool, enjoy the ride! - boingk 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaz3g Posted October 31, 2012 Author Share Posted October 31, 2012 The (alternative) moral of the story is that all aerodromes with ambigious/ambidextrous winds should have piles of leaves burning near the runway. Better than a wind sock, 80 kn! <grin> Kaz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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