petetheprinta Posted October 29, 2012 Author Posted October 29, 2012 Talking to Ian Hampel he says to achieve a smooth free form shape, the skin is attached to the frame without using nuts bolts rivets. Somehow it slots into special tracking on the frame. He was rather vague on details. Anyone know how that might work??
pj8768 Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 The Harley brigade now flying! I can see it now- customised "pipes"', ice cream bucket helmets, white T shirt and Levi's with OAT of zero degrees.
skeptic36 Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 Talking to Ian Hampel he says to achieve a smooth free form shape, the skin is attached to the frame without using nuts bolts rivets. Somehow it slots into special tracking on the frame. He was rather vague on details. Anyone know how that might work?? A couple of ways it could be achieved 1) A peice of stiff cardboard or plastic 15 to 20mm wide is sewn to the fabric, it is turned under and slots into a groove. This relies on either shrinking the fabric (that would be my guess) or being able to tension the fabric some other way after fitting. This method can be found on late model car seats, holding the covers in place . The foam provides the tension to hold the strip in the slot. 2) A piece of rope or plastic cord is sewn into a pocket in the fabric then slipped into a c section similar to a caravan annex Regards Bill
shu77 Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 Well behind schedule though with their first protoype meant to have started construction in August, also no site updates since May in the build log. Always a cause for concern in a manufacturers website
petetheprinta Posted October 29, 2012 Author Posted October 29, 2012 A couple of ways it could be achieved 1) A peice of stiff cardboard or plastic 15 to 20mm wide is sewn to the fabric, it is turned under and slots into a groove. This relies on either shrinking the fabric (that would be my guess) or being able to tension the fabric some other way after fitting. This method can be found on late model car seats, holding the covers in place . The foam provides the tension to hold the strip in the slot. 2) A piece of rope or plastic cord is sewn into a pocket in the fabric then slipped into a c section similar to a caravan annexRegards Bill Thanks Bill but in fact the covering is aluminum not fabric that's why I question the method of fabrication. The skin is several pieces of aluminium CNC machined and formed, and somehow attached to tracks without using fasteners.??
skeptic36 Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 N Thanks Bill but in fact the covering is aluminum not fabric that's why I question the method of fabrication. The skin is several pieces of aluminium CNC machined and formed, and somehow attached to tracks without using fasteners.?? nope got nuthin
petetheprinta Posted October 29, 2012 Author Posted October 29, 2012 it would have to be glued together Don't like the sound of that... 1
fly_tornado Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 Don't like the sound of that... never flown in a boeing? its works ok 2
Guest Maj Millard Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 Sounds like a pipe dream to me....the proofs in the pudding ! Jan 2013 is not far away, we can only wait and see...... Q. What does a blue cattle dog and a Harley have in common ?.. A. They both like a ride home in the ute after a hard days' work !..... Note : harleys have been tried several times over the years in aircraft, with little success..........I mean how would you see through the windscreen with all the oil anyway.... ?...........................................Maj....
rgmwa Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 Can you get it with chopper handlebars instead of a stick? rgmwa 1
damkia Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 Sounds like a pipe dream to me....the proofs in the pudding !Jan 2013 is not far away, we can only wait and see...... Q. What does a blue cattle dog and a Harley have in common ?.. A. They both like a ride home in the ute after a hard days' work !..... Note : harleys have been tried several times over the years in aircraft, with little success..........I mean how would you see through the windscreen with all the oil anyway.... ?...........................................Maj.... Thank God Land Rover don't make aircraft..... On the bright side............you would never get lost, all you need to do is follow the oil drip marks all the way home.
Guest Maj Millard Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 Trust me on this folks, if it was doable the yanks would have done it by now, and they haven't !........................Maj...
petetheprinta Posted October 29, 2012 Author Posted October 29, 2012 It must be sad for you ol timers living in the past, don't stereotype new HD's with what you are familiar with the old pan heads and knuckleheads went out of production many years ago."Both like a ride home in the ute", " follow the oil leaks" you obviously haven't been near a modern Harley folks. I repeat, having owned Harley's for many years. I would stake my life on the reliability of a HD engine way way before I would bet on a rotex or a jab engine. You do not do 50 hr checks on a HD engine ( that may change if they end up in aircraft) you do not need strip downs every few hours to do up through bolts or whatever. Side on configuration and efi will give you even burns, no massive differences in cht's. it will be a win win win engine. Solid reliable, low revving last forever. "The yanks would have done it by now" open your eyes people, get off backsides do some research instead of being armchair experts. There are numerous HD engined aircraft flying. Not mainstream yet but plenty out there . There endeth the lesson for today!! 1
turboplanner Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 The one I saw on You Tube was in a Cub and in the run over the airstrip appeared to be firing once every 30 metres - the Lanz Bulldog of the air. Only yesterday I was slashing in the Ferguson and thought what a wonderful engine Standard designed. This one's been going for fifty years and nowhere near needing an overhaul, no oil leaks, no smoke, and only needs the oil pressure needle still to be attached to the gauge. There's a big difference in reliability between an engine designed for intermittant loading and one designed for constant lugging - around 70%.
petetheprinta Posted October 29, 2012 Author Posted October 29, 2012 You gotta admit sounds good. As regards lugging, that's exactly what Harley's are designed for tons of torque, pull away from 0 to whatever you want in top gear ( not much use for aviation but you get the idea). You've all seen Harley riders flat out when they can (take off) flat out through the hills (climb) then cruise into the sunset lol. The engines are massively over designed to take whatever punishment the 1%'s and the yuppees and me can throw at them. Don't make the mistake that Harley's operate like normal road vehicles. It's flat out or nothing, if not what's the point or owning one.
facthunter Posted October 29, 2012 Posted October 29, 2012 "Sounds badass' Probably means great in Yank.. Compressors, pumps, fast boats and planes give engines more to cope with than most other applications. Nev
ExJourno Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 The Harley brigade now flying!I can see it now- customised "pipes"', ice cream bucket helmets, white T shirt and Levi's with OAT of zero degrees. You forgot tassles. HOG-types like to wear tassles.
boingk Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Why don't we all stop knocking it? Sounds awesome in the video above and I'm sure is a very good design. As for belt primaries... pretty sure HD's have been running those since the land before time. Very popular 'badass' modification to new bikes as well. Their rear belt drive is also remarkable and outlasts chains on even high-end sportsbikes, getting something like 100,000km before standard service (replacement). If an SD-1 Minisport can fly along well on a Briggs and Stratton engine with a prop attached, I'm damn well sure that a HD engine would be good in the air too. - boingk 1
ExJourno Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 Why don't we all stop knocking it? Sounds awesome in the video above and I'm sure is a very good design.As for belt primaries... pretty sure HD's have been running those since the land before time. Very popular 'badass' modification to new bikes as well. Their rear belt drive is also remarkable and outlasts chains on even high-end sportsbikes, getting something like 100,000km before standard service (replacement). - boingk There is no actual limit on how long they can remain on while they are in suitable condition. As long as the rubber isn't perishing the belt can stay on (assuming the kevlar band is still intacts). On my Buell 1125R, I shredded a belt at 12,000km (tore 16 teeth from it...) . Replaced under warranty as (words to the effect of) "that should not have happened. The kevlar is intact, the rubber has delaminated from the belt which suggests it only failed due to mishandling - probably got flattened out prior to installation allowing a crease to form and eventually a split." (There was no evidence of a stone getting caught which is the usual/most common cause for a prematurely failed belt). And if you can get a stone stuck between the cogs and a rubber belt on your plane, you are doing something very wrong. Now... I'm off look at tassles and consider how they might match this plane.
fly_tornado Posted October 30, 2012 Posted October 30, 2012 boingk from what I understand the Harley has never taken off in the aircraft market, in part due to gear lash. The Harley engine is designed to have an out of balance firing order, the potato potato potato you hear. That unbalanced power stroke is followed by a long idle period. This means the gears are unloaded then given a big hard thump by the big engine. The gears are a lot happier when the engine is pushing all the time. In this case we are talking about the belt, its hard to know how well the belt will hold up to the constant vibration of a Harley engine, belts aren't really designed for that sort of load. It won't be a cheap belt to replace either. That big power pulse is also not really good for the prop either as it gets whipped along with every power stroke.
petetheprinta Posted October 30, 2012 Author Posted October 30, 2012 boingk from what I understand the Harley has never taken off in the aircraft market, in part due to gear lash.The Harley engine is designed to have an out of balance firing order, the potato potato potato you hear. That unbalanced power stroke is followed by a long idle period. This means the gears are unloaded then given a big hard thump by the big engine. The gears are a lot happier when the engine is pushing all the time. In this case we are talking about the belt, its hard to know how well the belt will hold up to the constant vibration of a Harley engine, belts aren't really designed for that sort of load. It won't be a cheap belt to replace either. That big power pulse is also not really good for the prop either as it gets whipped along with every power stroke. You are correct in the fact that it has an out of balance firing order and has done for the last (almost) 110 years since they first started building them. I am happy to report that by now they have got it right. I'm sorry, how long have rotex and jab been building engines? Backlash in 96b (not older designs, flatheads, pans, knuckles, shovels, evos) is eliminated by complete redesign of engine and design of gears and size of flywheel taking up the slack. Of course this still has to be transferred to prop and, as you said, therein probably is the problem. Don't make the mistake that the engine will be the problem. It's not going to be an easy task, and I hope the persevere as I for one will be in line to purchase the aircraft. (Assuming it passes all requirements of course) Sorry folks but you will never dampen my enthusiasm for a Harley powered aircraft. :-) 1
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