RAAus Fails CASA Audit Again

[flyerme]

I would love nothing more than to go back to my own little flying world where I dont get involved in all this political crap (as the majority seem to do ) but this now involves us all as a whole,why is it that emails,letters,etc have not been forwarded to members to let us know whats going on ?.I know of 2 current members whom don,t own a computer so don,t have access to the non detailed small piece of crap they posted on the site..It sucks when an instuctor of 30 years and a member since the begining of the original organisation has to find out from one of his ex students!!! this is real poor management I believe,,we should be advised and updated in detail of whats happened and what is required to get back on track.

 

edit=I believe a detailed news letter shoud be issued every month to members only with there mag detailing all issues and outcomes.

 

 

[Powerin]

The dual and conflicting functions imposed on the RAAus by CASA are in need of clarifying as to how they can operate in a real situation. ie RAAus board is elected by us , Most of the running expenses are paid for by us.

" Those who pay should have the say" There is some acknowledgement implicit in the fact that SOME money is allocated to RAAus for services performed that would normally have been the job of CASA.

Well said Nev.

I have to say it...if we were able to see the financials, as is our right as members, and required by the constitution, then we would actually know how much of our funds run the show and how much CASA actually contributes....

 

 

[Guernsey]

Don't stress CB - this is just what happens on forums when things get a little heated. In person most of these people would be perfectly reasonable, in cold, hard text it often comes off as a little more nasty....And Turbs is a sweet little pussy cat when you get to know him

Even sweet little pussy cats show their claws sometimes, however, I agree with you Bandit12 that some of us do go overboard sometimes with our posts and end up argueing amongst ouselves. One of our more recent regular contributors has just posted for the last time because of the perceived in-fighting.

 

Alan.

 

 

[winsor68]

Listen guys... you gotta understand that this is not a new development. Some of the "regulars" on this forum have been trying to bring this to light for years... Has anyone forgotten what the Executive tried to do to Ian just recently by refusing him membership? The personal attacks in the form of "just a small group of troublemakers" comments from many sides regarding many of us who have been trying to bring this to light?

 

Emotions are going to run high... I know I am pretty appalled to read the naivety shown by many members regarding this matter.

 

 

[Guest john]

There is supposedly to be a meeting tomorrow between CASA & RAAus to sort this s$it out, is what we little people are being told.

 

If any of you have had the privelege of flying across this beautifful country to Birdsville, & taxied down to the end of the airstrip, where you could walk over to the pub a few steps away, to quench a must needed thirst, there is a sign on the wall that reads:

 

"Free beer tomorow"

 

Don't hold your breath fellows & gals that all will be fixed with the waving of the magic wand tomorrow at this window dressing meeting, because what we may see in the window is not what is actually going on behind the curtains which is an ugly saga which RAAus does not want us to see the real picture.

 

I say again that if the elected RAAus Board members & CEO have the guts & fortitude to face this disaster head on , then they should appoint an interim Adminsitrator in the meantime , then they should resign & for the interim Administrator to call an extroadinary general meeting for a new board to be elected & for those existing Board members who have a conscience & are directly responsibile for there incompoetence & negligence for having allowed the RAAus to be brought into disrepute, then they should voluntarily stand aside to exlude themselves from nominating for the new Board & furthermore ,just as they have previously decided in their so called wisdom to try & exclude the renewal of this sites admininstrator from renewing his membership, which efforts failed, & its like pissing in the wind, because what goes around comes around, then they should now step aside & have the best interests of the RAAus at heart to let the organisation progress rather than trying to protect their own asses.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

So John heres a question for you:-

 

Whats worse:-

 

1) the current board and current exec

 

2) No Board and No exec

 

The reason I ask is that the above 2 choices are something that we should absolutely avoid being asked to choose between.

 

Personally I would like a well considered choice number 3) or even 3) and 4) and preferably ready to go before anyone acts to achieve a vote of no confidence in the current team.

 

So, to you and others who have similar thoughts, whats the right choice 3) or 4) and how will you and the others here we make it happen, and make no mistake it will have to be engineered to happen, "leaving it to the gods" may well result in a worse outcome than we already have and as my old boss use to tell me all the time "Hope is not a valid strategy in business" and make no mistake we are in business....at least temporarily anyway.....

 

I personally beleive that a General Meeting and a vote of no confidence is pretty much assured so discussions around that probably should shift focus to ensure what follows is better, and significantly more so that what is current. I dont consider the idea of " a temporary administrator" followed by elections to be a complete idea. In fact thats more aligned to "leave it to the Gods". At present there are significant problems in being a board member that mean you may toss them out and have a choice of only them to re-elect unless something changes which allows more skilled people to nominate....

 

Any suggestions?

 

Andy

 

 

[Powerin]

I would love nothing more than to go back to my own little flying world where I dont get involved in all this political crap (as the majority seem to do ) but this now involves us all as a whole.

Thinking aloud and perhaps ranting a bit......

I wonder is it time to call an end to the RAAus experiment? It is becoming apparent to me that for an organisation the size of RAAus to succeed it needs the full support and oversight of its members. But it's also obvious that the majority of members, like flyerme, absolutely don't want to get involved in all this Association stuff, they just want to fly. There are those of us here, some of whom have posted in this thread, who don't mind getting involved in the politics, voting in elections and generally taking a keen interest in the running of RAAus. We are in the minority. For most RAAus is the necessary evil you have to put up with to fly.

 

And that's fair enough! I'm not criticizing you. I don't give a rats about my "Auto Club" (NRMA). I have never voted in one of their elections. I don't care, as long as someone turns up to fix my car when I phone the number.

 

So, given that the majority of members just want to fly, don't want to get involved, and don't want to vote in these pesky elections for people they don't know (like me with the NRMA), can an organisation as big as the RAAus, with popularly elected volunteer directors, ever work? It's not working now.

 

I'm well aware of the wonderful history of the RAAus and the AUF before it. But maybe it's time that the grass roots guys go off and perhaps join with the HGFA, fly 300ft above the paddocks and enjoy the freedoms they fought for. And then the rest of us get absorbed into the evil empire.

 

I don't know. Just putting it out there for discussion. Over to you....

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

So...the evil empire.....

 

If the doors were open then the choice to be absorbed may be a valid choice......But I think the doors are firmly shut and the "repel boarders order has been given."

 

I believe that CASA wants an RAA style approach to succeed if not RAA then bring on the next and by the way your not getting any more than the token pitance that we give RAA......The Evil Empire overlord is well aware that for them to bring it all back in house is going to cost him serious $ that he hasnt a snowballs chance of getting from the current gov, in fact just getting what he was promised is probably a step too far in the current "must have a surplus" zombie argument....

 

 

[Powerin]

So...the evil empire.....

I was going to say "assimilated into the Borg Collective" ....but thought too many wouldn't know what that meant...and I didn't want to appear like a complete nerd. But then it's probably too late for that....

 

 

[Jabiru Phil]

All talk about sackings etc. are not going to fix the casa requirements for audits. Files need to be gone over and checked. Casa, like the ato do random checks. Files need to be in order to get a pass, simple as that!

 

Goes years back when this area was not probably policed or checked thoroughly with first registrations.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Powerin

 

I think you are correct we are going to be consumed hence the end of the RAAus.

 

Just a question and thinking outside the square:-

 

Is this system and process review with CASA involment just a preparation for a consuming?

 

Well I smell a big fat rat and can not work out where he is heading.

 

Am I being over suspicious?

 

Keith Page.

 

 

[Keith Page]

Here Here Jabiru Phil.

 

We must comply, love the ATO

 

Keith Page

 

 

[eightyknots]

Ok Guys, I will let the cat out of the bag now...for some time, and some others have known this, I have had the documents to start a 2nd organisation...aptly named Recreational Flying however I have not acted on them due to 2 specific reasons...1 is that I really really wanted to give RAAus a chance to fix itself and didn't want to do anything that would jeopardise the viability of RAAus in any way at all and 2, the cost that I would have to pay CASA's legal people, an hourly rate mind you, to go through each document to check that all was ok.This started almost 12 months ago when I first raised the question with CASA. Since then RAAus has sunk deeper and deeper, failing audits, mismanagement by amateurs, groundings, the political games etc etc etc...and even whilst all the crap was going on with what they tried to do with me, I still wanted to give RAAus a chance to turn things around.

 

No matter what happens we WILL all still be able to fly, register aircraft, transfer registrations etc because no matter what happens, the whole recreational aviation industry is just so big that it won't stop. BUT, the question is how much more do we have to put up with the inadequacies and political games whilst we keep on flying...why do we have to keep putting up with all this???

 

I want to be able to put OUR Association up on a pedestal, I want to respect our Association and it be the talk of the aviation industry on how good the management of it is, how good a self regulating body can be...I want to, and have always made that very clear...very clear that I am passionate about OUR Association.

 

...but...perhaps....there may be a better way to achieve it...and that could well be competition as competition WILL lift the game no end and there is only two entities that will benefit by it...the Industry as a whole and US, the recreational aviation community.

 

My own personal opinion as Ian, not as site admin

 

I'll definately sign.Can't wait to see an end to this.On another note, maybe NZ has it right with its two organizations and its insurance setup.Competition would do RAAUS good and help keep them a bit more honest and upfront.

I agree with you Ian and P.B.

 

In fact, those who have been reading my posts will know that I have been labouring this point for some time: I have seen how well this works here in New Zealand.

 

Monopolies, nearly always end up with an abuse of power, or an abuse of the market, in this case the Recreational Flying registration market. When I come back to my home country (Australia), I would like to have a choice which organisation to join: RA-Aus or Xyz-Aus. Time to make a move??

 

 

[bilby54]

Ok guys, so we run them all off and get a new executive. Which one of you are going to put your hand up to be voted in????

 

If a new executive is voted, will the current problem go away...... don't bloody think so!

 

I have a perfectly good aeroplane sitting out on the flat that is not allowed to fly in Australian skies because someone in RAAus or CASA stuffed up. They stuffed up so much that it was allowed to fly for six years before someone decided that it needed to be grounded. There are ten more in the same situation! CASA has now decided that RAA is so bad at running the organisation that they do not want to allow any new registrations or transfers of registrations.

 

Are you or anyone else really going to put your hands up to take on a position like this??

 

I personally want the problem fixed, not some electronic witch hunt to get a new executive that can do the same as the current executive. For the record, I despise the RAA for the situation that we are now in but it has been a long running problem and the current "CASA" staff knew about it when they were in charge.

 

 

[JohnMcK]

Hi Guys,

 

I have had so many phone calls today and heard so many rumours my head is spinning. Seriously, each of you have an area representative, so if you are not sure of something ask your local Rep, their contact details are in the front of our magazine.

 

Our issues are we have failed another CASA audit. Paperwork and procedures we were suppose to fix after the previous audits was not up to scratch. CASA are just doing their job, and we need to lift our game and get our house and paperwork in order. One big issue is the sheer number and complexity of aircraft types we administer, and our staff have some difficulty in correctly identifying the correct "boxes to tick". Foreign LSA are causing us a particular problem due to the numbers of type and the complexities of the paperwork required, and the strict procedures to be followed to be allowed to be registered LSA in Australia.

 

We are in the process of employing a special consultant, acceptable to CASA, to help us put in place proper procedures, checks and staff training. No, we did not have three consultants forced on to us at $200 per hour each by CASA, as I heard 6 times today. And NO, all aircraft will not be grounded next week. I have it direct from CASA personally that they want us to succeed, but they are the Regulator, and you can be sure there is serious pressure on them as well. If in doubt, have another look at our current legal case document.

 

Paul Middelton (Secretary and NSW Rep), due to his knowledge and experience, is working overtime with the President and staff to get our house in order, and with the consultant they are working on procedures and a system of checks that will give CASA confidence that we can get on top of this problem. I doubt there is any other country in the world that has anywhere near the sheer number of types and variants in aircraft that we have in RAA Australia. So we have to design unique systems from the ground up. Remember, every time there is an incident or accident, the authorities come straight for the paperwork. We have to get it right. What we thought in the past would be acceptable, particularly for LSA registration, we now find this is not the case. Also, we are now over 10,000 strong, and we get our share of those who will misrepresent, cheat and lie to register an aircraft out of spec, so we have to checks on checks for these as well.

 

We will get it right, (and soon) and be far stronger and more proficient and professional from this exercise in the future. (It is a very ill wind ......)

 

John McK

 

 

[ExJourno]

So I guess what I said isn't so absurd then...

 

 

[Tex]

So I guess what I said isn't so absurd then...

... or vapid

 

 

[winsor68]

Good on you John for stepping up as a board member and letting us know what is going on.

 

But please don't ask us to support the clowns who were running the show when this situation was bought about... they aren't deserving of a clap on the back. Fixing this issue is the least they can do...It is what we paid an office staff and a CEO for all these years... IMO

 

 

[fly_tornado]

RAA aren't through the audit yet. The fact that CASA had to shut the RAA down to get them moving says a lot about where the RAA are, performance wise. I would suggest that things will slide once the heat from CASA has subsided.

 

 

[David Isaac]

For a bit of reality here folks to those who suggest we shouldn't 'worry';

 

At 5,000 aircraft registered through RA Aus on average that equates to 13.7 aircraft renewals per day ...

 

So every day this debacle continues we effectively ground 13.7 more aircraft or 96 aircraft per week ... and we shouldn't 'worry'?????

 

Get a bloody grip on reality , this is a bloody serious problem and as I stated in an earlier post has the potential to send some training organisations who have acted in good faith to the wall.

 

 

[jetjr]

So every day this debacle continues we effectively ground 13.7 more aircraft or 96 aircraft per week ... and we shouldn't 'worry'?????.

I get where your coming from David but many of these~ 96 Ac would have renewed a few weeks ago (not waited until 4 days to go).

Assuming that RAA can get their stuff in order quickly there will for sure be a back log of renewals.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Thanks John,

 

How much better and how much less stress it would have caused if that had been posted on the RAA website

 

The next question is how long it will take to get these aircraft compliant and the paperwork in order.

 

The key group at risk here, which flows on to the most members, are the flying schools

 

 

[Captain]

We are in the process of employing a special consultant, acceptable to CASA, to help us put in place proper procedures, checks and staff training.Paul Middelton (Secretary and NSW Rep), due to his knowledge and experience, is working overtime with the President and staff to get our house in order, and with the consultant they are working on procedures and a system of checks that will give CASA confidence that we can get on top of this problem.

 

We will get it right, (and soon) and be far stronger and more proficient and professional from this exercise in the future. (It is a very ill wind ......)

 

John McK

John,

 

Many thanks for coming on here with that response. You are the only Board or Exec member with the guts and courtesy to do it and it is greatly appreciated.

 

However I am concerned at your mention about "Staff Training". I have no trouble with proper training of the line staff who have to do the processing, but please (oh please) tell me that you are not referring to "training" the CEO and Senior Managers who were employed to administer and put in place these processes and who should have been hired because of their specific knowledge and skills in this area. Now that it is clear that the CEO and Senior Managers have been unable to set-up, refine and administer the RAA systems to satisfy CASA, surely the Board and Executive will provide the leadership to cut the dead wood and those that have clearly failed, including those in the Executive with clear oversight responsibilities for the staff's problems that have come to light.

 

This stuff-up and the failure to survive audits requires consequences for those responsible, not time away from their jobs for "training" ............... or has this member's organisation turned into the public service?

 

In private enterprise what has happened would never be tolerated and I see no reason why it should be in this member's organisation.

 

Regards & thanks again

 

Geoff

 

 

[Guest czechmate]

Given that CASA or their delegated person, not RAAus, have to physically inspect every LSA aircraft & issue a Certificate of Airworthiness for it to be registered here, I don't understand where the problem could be in RAAus.

 

 

[Admin]

I give up!