RAAus Fails CASA Audit Again

[dodo]

czechmate,

 

despite what we have previously been told, it looks like the problem is not just with LSAs,

 

dodo

 

 

[Admin]

Thread title changed to better reflect the subject matter

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

John

 

Thanks for coming on here and providing some more detail. I do not understand why the RAA website couldnt have that detail posted instead of the current text that would suggest we are paying by SMS Quantum where more than 160 characters costs an extra chunk of $ to post. Furthermore I believe that words chosen with an overarching attempt to soothe are likely to backfire I dont want to be soothed I want to understand what is happening and how I can personally help address the underlying issue. I realistically want to understand what "soon" means It's a word that only means something when you have a frame of reference. A CASA "soon" may seem like a lifetime if I was grounded......The part 103 and associated legislation was "soon" about 5 years back and now seems like never.

 

But all that said, thanks for saying what you did.

 

Andy

 

 

[winsor68]

Thanks again John Mc for the contribution...

 

My mind does boggle reading this (note I am not shooting the messenger)

 

"We are in the process of employing a special consultant, acceptable to CASA, to help us put in place proper procedures, checks and staff training."

 

What happened to the staff we already employed for the last however many years to do this? Why have we been targeted for asking these questions? I agree they need to have their bloody heads down fixing the problem right now... but seriously. Please explain.

 

 

[bilby54]

Hi Guys,Remember, every time there is an incident or accident, the authorities come straight for the paperwork. We have to get it right. What we thought in the past would be acceptable, particularly for LSA registration, we now find this is not the case. Also, we are now over 10,000 strong, and we get our share of those who will misrepresent, cheat and lie to register an aircraft out of spec, so we have to checks on checks for these as well.

John McK

John,

 

You refer to getting the paperwork right but in the grounding of the Ibis fleet, NO paperwork has been issued to any owner and it has NOT been posted on the RAA web site.

 

It is highly likely that this audit will produce more groundings so the office needs to make yet another form to cover this and it needs to be a legal instrument.

 

The owners and operators of the Ibis do not have any documentation for the flight manual to say the aircraft is grounded; they do not have any documentation to take to the bank manager to say they cannot meet the repayments because the aircraft is not allowed to fly. The RAA has proven yet again that they cannot handle this and it is only the honesty of the owners that stops these aircraft from flying.

 

I do hope you are not refering to the current Ibis agent when refering to "those who will misrepresent, cheat and lie to register an aircraft"

 

 

[turboplanner]

Perhaps someone here with experience could explain the whole history of the LSA saga which seems to have infiltrated RAA without very much information at all?

 

 

[David Isaac]

I get where your coming from David but many of these~ 96 Ac would have renewed a few weeks ago (not waited until 4 days to go).Assuming that RAA can get their stuff in order quickly there will for sure be a back log of renewals.

I just don't get where you are coming from Jetr ...

Are you attempting to minimise the issue? By anybody's maths approximately 5,000 aircraft registered in RA Aus means there will be on average 13.7 registrations expiring and requiring renewal everyday of the year (divide 5,000 by 365days).

 

That means as every day rolls on another 13 cannot be renewed ... every day mate ... today 13 more ... tomorrow 13 more and the next day, let alone last week. This goes on every day as this debacle continues, every week at least another 96 aircraft grounded.

 

 

[Gentreau]

I...By anybody's maths approximately 5,000 aircraft registered in RA Aus means there will be on average 13.7 registrations expiring and requiring renewal everyday of the year (divide 5,000 by 365days).

But in reality it's more like 20 per working day (presumably RAA staff get weekends off) so even when registrations re-start, the staff will have to deal with almost 20 registrations per day plus the backlog which is building up at 20/day.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Given that CASA or their delegated person, not RAAus, have to physically inspect every LSA aircraft & issue a Certificate of Airworthiness for it to be registered here, I don't understand where the problem could be in RAAus.

Czechmate,

RA Aus is the body responsible to ensure the paperwork is issued by the owner / importer / manufacturer / builder and on file in the RA Aus records BEFORE a registration is issued whether the aircarft is an LSA or other category.

 

It has become evident in the investigation of number of accidents (some of which were fatal) that RA Aus paperwork is not in order and 'technically' these aircraft should NOT have been registered and flying ... but they were flying and in at least four cases, people have died in accidents in these aircraft.

 

There may well be NO causal link between the missing paperwork and the accident itself. As an example the missing paperwork had no direct relationship to the Old Bar accident where a RA Aus registered aircraft flew into the Ferris wheel on a 'go around'; but the accident set off a chain of investigative events that opened a can of worms that exposed the RA Aus process deficiencies.

 

You can imagine the legal can of worms that are opened when people die in an incorrectly registered aircraft. Perhaps then you can understand the level of legal costs to which RA Aus may be potentially exposed funding a defense to establish that the oversight did NOT contribute to the accident. The costs of defending any action taken against RA Aus could potentially bankrupt our organisation let alone any separate liability resulting from the legal action.

 

To make matters even worse we have already exhausted our insurance cover on one such legal matter for the very reasons I have detailed above and there are potentially three more such cases.

 

Do you understand the issue better now?

 

 

[turboplanner]

Best to just let this bite and bite hard. Let a few flying schools go bankrupt.

 

Let the people who just can't help posting bullshit to put a spoke in the wheel of those who care take a few months holiday from flying.

 

Let some of the owners leave their aircraft in the hangars.

 

Six months or so might wake them up.

 

 

[ave8rr]

Hi Guys,

Our issues are we have failed another CASA audit. Paperwork and procedures we were suppose to fix after the previous audits was not up to scratch. CASA are just doing their job, and we need to lift our game and get our house and paperwork in order. One big issue is the sheer number and complexity of aircraft types we administer, and our staff have some difficulty in correctly identifying the correct "boxes to tick". Foreign LSA are causing us a particular problem due to the numbers of type and the complexities of the paperwork required, and the strict procedures to be followed to be allowed to be registered LSA in Australia.

 

What we thought in the past would be acceptable, particularly for LSA registration, we now find this is not the case. Also, we are now over 10,000 strong, and we get our share of those who will misrepresent, cheat and lie to register an aircraft out of spec, so we have to checks on checks for these as well.

 

We will get it right, (and soon) and be far stronger and more proficient and professional from this exercise in the future. (It is a very ill wind ......)

 

John McK

John, I don't believe the sheer number and complexity of types we have here are any more than across the ditch or in USA / Canada etc.

 

The problem here is is that there are so many catergories to which an aircaft can be registered in. No wonder the staff are having trouble ticking the right boxes.

 

Tidy up (reduce) the number of categories and things will improve. This will require CASA to issue Rule Part 103 and do away with all the various ANO's we operate under.

 

This has been talked about for a number of years but still seems some time away.

 

I feel CASA has not made things easy for RAAus.

 

 

[robinsm]

So given that the president and staff are working overtime, can someone fill me in on the duties of the CEO and where he fits into all of this. Is his not an oversight Job that makes sure all parts are operating correctly? As I said before lock up the liquor cabinet untill the problems are solved.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Regardless of that John, the Association has to be managed to the existing regulations. When you fail the first CASA audit you take action to correct the mistakes, and there are 13,000 active members to draw on who run the Association.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

So given that the president and staff are working overtime, can someone fill me in on the duties of the CEO and where he fits into all of this. Is his not an oversight Job that makes sure all parts are operating correctly? As I said before lock up the liquor cabinet untill the problems are solved.

This is the core problem with the RAA, there is no one responsible for any outcomes. Aparently the title CEO is a misnomer, Steve is just an office manager.

 

 

[Robert]

Well isnt it great to finally hear from a board rep good on you John McK you get 10 out of 10 for that. Could have been a bit sooner though. Now to only hear something from our SA rep who promised us so much when he wanted our vote

 

 

[Guest nunans]

I have no doubt the audits CASA do on associations like RAA would be thorough and very difficult to comply with perfectly, I'm also aware of the rapid growth of RAA membership and aircraft in recent years (understandable in my eyes, as every man and his dog wants a taste of something as delicious as ra aus has been)

 

It seems maybe that Raa's operations have grown much faster than the administration and documentation have.

 

The effect of the audit might be to put the brakes on the growth untill the paperwork has caught up.

 

I feel for those who are legally grounded without rego in the interim but an alternative of VH/PPL/Lame maintenance is much worse and more expensive than RAA has ever been and would see alot of us hiring an aeroclub cessna twice a year rather than flying our own machines every other weekend.

 

I wish the people battling through the audits the best of luck and also thank Mr McK for his contribution.

 

 

[68volksy]

Well I for one am quite relieved that something has happened. Disgusted that it has got this far but nonetheless relieved that someone has finally put their foot down!

 

This could be an interesting period for the Association and the industry. They've come a long way since it all started - is it just coincidence or did the downhill slide start around the time we all thought that we were more important than the word "ultralight"? So many businesses/organisations have failed through focusing on growth and prestige whilst paying scant attention to the simple procedures and administration functions that provided their foundation. Hopefully the situation is salvageable and refocuses attention on the true purpose of an Administration organisation.

 

 

[johnm]

Per previous postings: ............ where the RAA website re registration update reads:

 

'Despite the best efforts of the staff and board of RAA last week and over the weekend ............'

 

It should read:

 

'Despite RAA percieved understanding of this dilemma, we (RAA) have failed to comprehend the registration requirement plus other requirements ('other requirements' enter your best guess). Since this matter has occured 'X' times before (enter your best guess) RAA has decided to meet with CASA (could be the other way round) and will endeavour to expedite the dilemma's solution and conclusion

 

The RAA upper echelon apologise for this oversight and confirm this in no way reflects on our dedicated staff - staff merely followed protocol set by (enter your best guess). RAA believe this matter will be resolved by (enter your best guess)

 

Once gain RAA confirms that there is no real important particular issue that flight schools, registered aircraft owners, sellers or their purchasers need to be made particularly aware of. Until further advice from RAA - good luck

 

 

[facthunter]

Nice bit of satire John. Very appropriate. Nev

 

 

[dazza 38]

Update is now on the RAA web site.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

John McK

 

Thank you for someone from RAA putting something out there that actually represent the facts. The doom and gloom being spoken about on this thread now seems to be further in the background. I am not condoning that the RAA hasnt got it right in the first place but it looks like there is work underway to rectfy it and CASA seem to realise the issues as well so hopefully it will all get sorted. I do feel for the people caught in the middle of this but I would think this process may only take a matter of weeks rather than the whole world collapsing in on itself. There of course after this maybe certain aircraft that will not be able to fly and this is where things can get snakey about the previous paper work trails and compliance and who let it through or whatever. So long as the majority is fixed first..the easy fixes I mean then the more complicated ones will need to be sorted out...Members want to keep flying this is the core of what we like to do ... the paperwork warfare part is always the most unpleasant

 

 

[Captain]

Update is now on the RAA web site.

I believe that the report to members on the website on this issue should be signed by the author so that we know who is saying what.

 

This should be authored & signed by either the so-called CEO or the President.

 

Please bear in mind that this is a report to the Membership, who provide most of the funds to pay the RAA Management, who it is reasonable to suspect have been the reason for the mess.

 

And I'm also not sure that it is saying enough, as it reads like the RAA are almost over the line with CASA and it's therefore just a day by day proposition. It will remain to be seen whether that is finally the case.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Next month's Sport Pilot is due in January!

 

 

[dazza 38]

I agree Captain. The way that the updates are written appear to me to be playing down the situation IMO.

 

 

[dazza 38]

To be honest, I think nobody realy knows how this is going to be played out. CASA are well within their right to check every single aircrafts paper trail.This could run into months.Having said that, they may allow the RAA yet another grace period to get the house in order. Time will tell.

 

The biggest problem I am concerned about is what is going to happen to our colleagues who own a aircraft that are currently grounded due to "other reasons".I am worried that they, due to the complexity of their situation may be waiting for a very long time. I hope that dosent happen. There is alot more to this than just, one or two aircraft having a mistake or two on their Registration application.