RAAus Fails CASA Audit Again

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Your points are valid and worth considering, however keeping things simple is valid in terms of communicating with the broader membershipo, many of whom, if allowed to fly and related activities could care less, however if we are to rengineer (or apoint an administrator who can administer ) then complexities do need to be dealt with by someone.. Still that only my opinion and of no more value than yours :<)

 

Re CASA being sued......The current litigation is not just againts RAA but as the new site on RAA says, "......RA-Aus is currently a defendant with CASA and the Executor of the Estate of the late John Guthrie in Supreme Court of NSW proceedings maintained by Mrs Carol Smith......" but as you point out we rely on insurance to fund and ideally (but not in this case) pay the outcomes if nonfavourable where as CASA merely reprioritises its legal team and has consolidated revenue to call on for its part if the decision is unfavourable...assuming they dont just appeal through each escallation court in Australia until the woman bringing the case becomes financially embarrased.....

 

 

[Captain]

Andys@coffs' date=' post: 252558, member: 94[/email']]My personal bullet point list has the following things on them:-

1) Insurance, what we have isnt right and is potentially medium to long term fatal. Its a one word problem but a major body of work to fix, IMHO.

 

2) Restructure of the board/exec. Do we need geograpohically aloocated representatives.......To me that approach is as an anology to talk about the usefullness of horse and cart in an automobile era. We are all able to be connected instantaneously via the internet, CASA requires allmembers to be able to get our notams and briefings etc online so no one should be able to argure that lack of computer ability or connection should prevent us using technology as an enabler.

 

3) Given 2) do we need as many on the board as we have, It seems to me that we have so many that it is potentially easy to freeload. There is a risk that we take our anger out on those in the exec who might in reality be the only ones that are doing stuff and didnt just divorce themselves from the rest of the board by virtue of ego but rather through lack of value in the remainder...(Its only a guess not a statement of fact, I havent been involved so cant know if its true or not, but in any event this is about looking forward not backwards and addressing forward potential problems) Reminds me of that old military saying, Lead!, Follow!, or get the f&k out of my way!!!

 

4) CASA audit outcomes show us that we needed an external audit to find problems, In most large businesses we have an internal audit capability to unearth problems before you are embarrased publically...clearly we need some form of Quality assurance capability. Nothings for nothing so we will need to invest members money into something like this

 

5) Our IT capabilities both internal (operational) and externally facing are woeful and have been for years.....we need to get on top of this

 

6) And lastly there is obviously a problem with the chain of command, a CEO arguing he doesnt have responsibility for day tpo day operational team suggests that he, if not others in the office dont understanhd who provides marching orders. Where we have statutory reporting lines (teh equivalent of dual reporting in the corporate world) then there is the risk or people being pulled in oposing directions. To prevent taht duty statements and performance reviews are always done with both manager stakeholders present so that the bunny in the middle doesnt end up in a no win situation. The current circumstances show we have problems here.

Andy,

 

I know and respect where you are coming from, but my take is slightly different as below.

 

This is coloured by my past experience where I have recently completed a contract as COO of a Mining Company, a CEO a few years ago of a national Sporting Body and having been involved in motor sport for many years.

 

The numbers below refer to yours:

 

1 - I consider the insurance issue as just a management problem. It is faced by every organisation and similar satisfactory policies are in place in many similar organisations. If I can get good cover to race a motorcycle, then it can be put in place for Recreational Aviation.

 

Director and Officer's insurance is similar, but perhaps hard to get if an organisation borders on being disfunctional.

 

I had no trouble arranging these insurances a few years ago for a national sporting body of 15,000 members which involved the shooting sports.

 

2 - This is a big one and probably Constitutionally based.

 

However I will comment on this present bullsh*t RAA practice of 2 Board Meetings a year. While I know that there are phone links and discussions more often, in my opinion there should be a formal Board Meeting held monthly, albeit by electronic or video hook-up. But it must be formal and it must be fully functional & binding ......... with full monthly financial and management reporting.

 

Consideration could even be given to making those items that are not discussed in camera, open to bona-fide members to listen in on through a secure web connection.

 

As an example, through regular oversight this would have stopped the Treasurer (so called) and the Executive from fronting up at an AGM with unaudited accounts. (I cannot tolerate such amateurish performance).

 

3 - Monthly Board Meetings and encouragement from internal peer pressure would solve that. Anyone who is not pulling their weight on the Board should be sanctioned by the other Board Members & the full membership.

 

4 - An internal audit system (or retaining an external party to undertake such checks) is normal in business, and is not difficult. It works well in mining and we have Statutory Responsibility within our operations.

 

I see this as normal management if they are competent.

 

5 - This is surely a simple and normal management function that is faced by almost all companies. The only organisations without good IT support & a functional website are those that are incompetent or amateurish. Which or both of those apply to RAA?

 

6 - Poor chain of command is just ratsh*t management at Executive and senior staff levels. Good management could fix that in 3 days.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Andy maybe start a new thread so we can use this one to follow the ongoing dramas of owners trying to reregister their planes (if any)

The magnificent Moderatii may well carve mine and other posts off if they feel it appropriate. I personally believe however that the content when compared to the thread title is actually appropriate.....but over to Loxy and Co

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Andy,I know and respect where you are coming from, but my take is slightly different as below.

 

This is coloured by my past experience where I have recently completed a contract as COO of a Mining Company and have been involved in motor sport for many years.

 

1 - I consider the insurance issue as just a management problem. It is faced by every organisation and similar satisfactory policies are in place in many similar organisations. If I can get good cover to race a motorcycle, then it can be put in place for Recreational Aviation.

 

Director and Officer's insurance is similar, but perhaps hard to get if an organisation borders on being disfunctional.

 

I had no trouble arranging these insurances a few years ago for a national sporting body of 15,000 members which involved the shooting sports.

Ok, fair enough but who and how....Where does this good management come from, how are we putting them in place, as a result of what activity at the EGM

 

2 - This is a big one and probably Constitutionally based.

However I will comment on this present RAA preactice of 2 Board Meetings a year bullsh*t. While I know that there are phone links and discussions more often, in my opinion there should be a formal Board Meeting held monthly, albeit by electronic or video hook-up. But it must be formal and fully functional.

 

Consideration could even be given to making those items that are not discussed in camera, open to bona-fide members to listen in on.

 

As an example, through regular oversight this would have stopped the Treasurer (so called) and the Executive from fronting up at an AGM with unaudited accounts. (I cannot tolerate such amateurish performance).

Same questions, what is it that we will put to the members to have the constitution changed. Who is putting it together and when?

 

3 - Monthly Board Meetings and encouragement from internal peer pressure would solve that. Anyone who is not pulling their weight on the Board should be sanctioned by the other Board Members & the full membership.

4 - An internal audit system (or retaining an external party to undertake such checks) is normal in business, and is not difficult. It works well in mining and we have Statutory Responsibility within our operations.

 

I see this as normal management if they are competent.

Cant recall at the moment whether the normal meeting structures/occurences/timelines and agendas are defined in the constitution or the Bylaws, I think its the latter, if Bylaws who is makeing the changes? It doesnt have to be at the EGM, but if we are all gathered and ready to transform.... perhaps it should be...Who and when?

 

5 - This is surely a simple and normal management function that is faced by almost all companies. The only organisations without good IT support & a functional website are those that are incompetent or amateurish. Which or both of those apply to RAA?

6 - Poor chain of command is just ratsh*t management at Executive and senior staff levels. Good management could fix that in 3 days.

 

Regards Geoff

Wont ask who and when on this one, thats a follow on action to the first I think....

 

 

[turboplanner]

dodo, this is an Incorporated Association and therefore does not have a board of directors with the luxury of just direction and oversight.

 

It has a board of management, and THEY are the executives.

 

This is a self administering body and ALL of the members are supposed to be participating in that process in a voluntary capacity whether directly, or through their elected representatives.

 

Have a good look at the Constitution and you will see that people through the years have aggrandised themselves and totally confused most of the membership.

 

• information to the membership is already spelled out - it is the responsibility of the members representatives (confusingly called board members), or more realistically in the online age, the President.
   
   
  
• separation of administration and oversight/direction/policy - there is a group of employees, and there is a separate group of members representatives to provide this.There is no position for the inflated title of CEO until such time perhaps as RAA had a Head Office and Branch Officers where this person would co-ordinate a series of Managers - this of course would be possible, and I notice is even hinted at and suggested in some quarters, but the only objections may come from members objecting to a licence renewal cost closer to $1,000.00 per year than $200.00 per year, so that path is really just one of being realistic.
   
   
  
• Some form of external review/audit - well there is the CASA external review which clearly has been very effective in finding faults. It would be simpler to employ volunteers to fill gaps quickly if defects were simply procedural or time related, or temporary skilled consultants where new processes were required.
   
   
  

 

 

I wonder though if the first step should be to get accurate information on what has actually happened:

 

What did each Audit report find?

 

What was the required corrective action each time?

 

Why wasn't that carried out each time?

 

It may be that something unreasonable was loaded on to RAA which you, the members would not have agreed to.

 

For example in the last day or so, I asked what the history of LSA was all about, and although a considerable number of members would by now have read the question, no one seems to know, and that raises the question on whether, if you knew that this would add substantially to RAA cost/workload and be a factor in the present situation, whether you would have told CASA to forget the category, or some other action such as charging the cost of any increased staff/skills to the category on a user pays concept.

 

 

[dodo]

Turbo,

 

I take your point on the Board being a board of management, but I still think a separation between administration (the employees), and oversight and direction (board) would make the role of each clearer, both to themselves and to the membership.

 

As to external review by CASA, I think an independent reviewer might have pre-empted problems with CASA (might not catch everything). Whether we call this external review or internal audit is not so important.

 

If RA-Aus were unwilling to take on CASA requirements, the board should have informed the membership - whereas effectively, CASA informed the membership!

 

Which bring us to your point on information, with which I totally agree.

 

How do we get the board to be open and informative? A general meeting is likely to be adversarial, which won't open peoples minds.

 

How do you get through to the board that problems like the junior membership issue are less damaging if explained? I felt the presidents explanation was acceptable on that issue, despite disagreeing with his point of view, and being unhappy with the communication debacle.

 

How can we get it understood that mistakes and problems are acceptable, so long as we are informed?

 

dodo

 

 

[Captain]

Dodo

 

Good management is like flying a plane. You need to keep yourself & your mind ahead of the action. As soon as you get behind you are playing catchup and are doomed.

 

To continue with that analogy, I reckon that RAA has been in the midst of the management equivalent of PIOs for the past 3 years at least (where they have been reacting instead of being fully in control).

 

Good management would have been proactive and arranging internal or outside assistance with audits to ensure that RAA passed any CASA inspection.

 

The standard line taken to members by SR and the Executive is "contact your representative" and that covers their arses, but we know, again from when Ian Baker was on the Board, that he had his knuckles wrapped because in their view he spoke/reported too much to the membership through this website and elsewhere.

 

In my case, I wouldn't give you 2 bob for Mr Caban's ability to represent me effectively.

 

And I always have the feeling with RAA that the members are being "managed" by the Executive. Examples of this are no mention of all these issues over recent months, either on the website or in the magazine, no reporting to the membership by Tizzard in the magazine when they had already experienced numerous audit failures (except for Tizzards tome on how to fly a circuit in the last Mag), very poor responses to David Isaac's Questions-on-Notice at the last AGM, etc. etc (let me know if you need any more).

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[turboplanner]

Goldentooth beat me on the trigger: To Dodo -

 

Para 1 Remove the ego position (CEO), instructions to staff to come through one person, the President, and you have it

 

That would then free up existing money for a highly skilled officer where needed

 

Para 2 In the ISO 9000/9200 experiment in Australia (which seems to have fallen by the wayside after $millions was spent on it), I acted as an temporary auditor. We had a clear task description, so we couldn't just invent our own agenda, and after the second or third audit (assisted by us all being told we would be fired if we screwed up), the books and procedures were always about 95% in order.

 

So you could have this type of system using volunteer skilled Members, with their travelling/accom/meals covered by RAA, and you could run it down the lines - Financial, Technical, Operations. This is not a blame system, both auditors and Officers know what's going to be checked, so nothing for the Officers to fear, and if an Officer was working 60 hours a week, efficiently, and still not able to complete workloads, the compliance report allows for assistance to be brought in.

 

Para 5 There is clearly no intention to be informative, I'll leave that to others.

 

Para 6 When the para 5 lightbulb goes off, some who are current employees of large companies in the workforce may recollect that by far the best way to motivate people is to tell them the truth about everything when it happens; I've seen some amazing team efforts following the worst kind of news, which produced stunning results.

 

Para 7 If the members representatives and the Officers were doing their best and achieving a professional result, we'd just throttle members who complained?

 

 

[Captain]

...... So you could have this type of system using volunteer skilled Members, with their travelling/accom/meals covered by RAA, ......

Tubb,

 

RAA's membership contains an amazing talent pool of skilled and experienced people and I am convinced that a number of the good people would be prepared to donate their time and out-of pocket costs to assist RAA to get out of this hole, and get back on the path to righteousness ........ if it were handled well by a new leadership.

 

But while-ever RAA has this public service, holy-er than thou Executive, management clique, cover their ars*, pump up their ego's, manage the membership ethos, good people will just stay doing their own thing, keep their head down and just try to go flying (which has just about come to an end for some).

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[winsor68]

I would like to back up what is being said regarding the Ra-Aus talent pool... (note I am not putting my self forward ... Just met a lot of ex GFA, GA and Ultralight Pilots who ALL have something to offer us newbies)...

 

Also IMO... I have seen a bit of the kind of people who are the "guts" of Ra-Aus... the problem is not the people... it is the management of the systems required to organize those people into an effective "umbrella" Operations Team... The problem is the what seems to me the almost complete "disconnect" from the reality of what is required and what sort of pilots/customers they are dealing with shown by the board direction over the last "several" years.

 

 

[Zibi]

Talking about communication and open information - is it me or is the RAA website down?

 

 

[octave]

looks like the RA Aus website is down

 

 

[bushcaddy105]

D

 

Talking about communication and open information - is it me or is the RAA website down?

Ditto from here

I just thought it was my usual slow satellite problem, but 2 tries failed in succession. Satellite must be OK as I'm posting this message!

 

 

[Bandit12]

Well, that is one way of avoiding the daily update I guess......

 

 

[dodo]

Well, that negates the need for an update from RA today!

 

 

[Guest john]

To All RAAus Members,

 

This afternoon I sent an open letter signed by my full name to the CEO of RAAus Steve Tizzard, requesting that he seriously consider voluntarily resigning forthwith from RAAus due to the incompetence & negligence that the organisation has subjected its members to in the failing of several CASA audits in recent times , which has brought severe financial & emotional issues to many members who have wanted to say their piece on this subject but would be afraid to for fear of recriminations.

 

I have told Steve that this genuine open letter is from the heart & in good faith , & furthermore I have nothing to fear because my days on this planet are numbered & I have also seen the good times in the 40 years I have been flying.

 

I told Steve that I at least want to see RAAus get out of the S&it that they are in & go from strength to strength rather that go from bad to worse.

 

 

[Pete Greed]

RAA's membership contains an amazing talent pool of skilled and experienced people and I am convinced that a number of the good people would be prepared to donate their time and out-of pocket costs to assist RAA to get out of this hole, and get back on the path to righteousness ........ if it were handled well by a new leadership.

 

But while-ever RAA has this public service, holy-er than thou Executive, management clique, cover their ars*, pump up their ego's, manage the membership ethos, good people will just stay doing their own thing, keep their head down and just try to go flying (which has just about come to an end for some).

 

Some twelve months ago our small regional, recreational flying club wrote to the RAAus Board seeking clarification on RAAus "Club" membership. We did not receive a reply. As an ex CEO and Chair/Board member of State and National community-based associations/companies, I found this of real concern. To me it pointed to three main problems: How does the governance committee/board of RAAus test its strategic thinking against the aspirations of members (its job)? And how does that strategic thinking translate to the actions of RAAus management (their job)? And thirdly, how do you marry this to a third party to which the organisation is, by choice, contracted and compliant (CASA)?

 

A couple of observations:

 

• As Geoff has pointed out, the membership talent pool of skilled and experienced people resides across regional Australia. They are usually contained in the the network of Clubs and Associations that make up the recreational aviation movement nation-wide. This informal network needs to be formally consulted when the future of RAAus is discussed.
   
   
  
• Management cannot have two masters. Many sectors (especially the community-based) involved in the delivery of government contracts, are now up against the most aggressive bureaucracies in the history of Australian government. Many community-based Boards run the risk of becoming rubber stamps, and management - pseudo government workers.
   
   
  
• What to do? Well there is a saying that seems to fit: "Power is never given, it is always taken".
   
   
  

 

 

Cheers, Pete

 

 

[turboplanner]

To All RAAus Members,This afternoon I sent an open letter signed by my full name to the CEO of RAAus Steve Tizzard, requesting that he seriously consider voluntarily resigning forthwith from RAAus due to the incompetence & negligence that the organisation has subjected its members to in the failing of several CASA audits in recent times , which has brought severe financial & emotional issues to many members who have wanted to say their piece on this subject but would be afraid to for fear of recriminations.

 

I have told Steve that this genuine open letter is from the heart & in good faith , & furthermore I have nothing to fear because my days on this planet are numbered & I have also seen the good times in the 40 years I have been flying.

 

I told Steve that I at least want to see RAAus get out of the S&it that they are in & go from strength to strength rather that go from bad to worse.

Well John, it's going to be interesting to see whether Tizzard is prepared to write back to you.

 

 

[Robert]

I have to take exception to this comment. No Board Member is required to have any input onto this Website. And if a Board Member chooses NOT to have any input, then that's up them and they certainly cant be seen in a negative light because of that. It's not an official RA-Aus Site, it's a site for aviation enthusiasts to chat and discuss issues - much like is occurring here in this thread. If a Board member chooses to provide some input on here - fine. I happen to know our SA Rep quite well - call me biased if you like - and you have no bloody idea how hard he (and no doubt others) work to try to help our organisation. On an average day when I see our Board Member, he'll receive many RA-Aus related phone calls.Rumors and innuendo do nothing to help our organisation. If you want to know more, ring your Board Member and ask them direct. In the meantime, give them the support they need to help our organisation deal with the challenges it faces. Ring them and ask "what can we do to help" instead of "you're hopeless lets sack you all"

Internet forum bickering, calls for sacking the Board etc ad nauseum, are divisive and disruptive. Besides you cant sack the board - they're volunteers - you can have them un-volunteer, which is what a lot of them will do if this negativity toward them continues. If you think you can do better put your name up for election... (Robert - general comment not aimed at you in particular)

It not really about comments or board reps replying on this forum its about the growing discontent by members being kept in the dark about whats going on within RAAus (members have been lied to when phoneing up the RAaus office to find out whats been going on lately, what sort of image does that relay to members.) It would be good to have a members only insert in the magazine to kept us posted on whats happenning and what changes are going on. Also a little note occationally from our area reps to lets know what they are doing to look after our interests.

 

The RAAus oganisation is about the membership so keeping us in the dark only breeds disconcent.

 

 

[terryc]

I have followed this thread with interest and offer the following as my opinion and only my opinion. It seems to me from previous posts and from what I hear generally is that members of the board are urgently in need of a job discriptions. The board are responsible for the mess we find ourselves in and nobody else. A previous poster mentioned he new a board member that worked very hard on our behalf, and that might well be so, but if he fails in his responsiblity to hold the management arm to account then all the hard work is for nothing. If he was to find himself in court as a board member offering a defence of " but I worked so hard" that isn't going to cut it. He will be sunk.

 

I have some experience as an elected unpaid member of a board running a not for profit organization and it gave me some insight into our obligations when we take on a job such as board member. This organization spent much time and money making absolutely certain that we as board members knew our role and responsibilities. This appears not to have happened with raa and it's board members. From where I sit the role of a raa board member is one of oversight first and foremost and then to implement policy and drive change and in that order. The oversight part is to make absolutely certain that the management side of raa is ran within the boundries set by casa and following the processes and procedures set by the board . If they get this part wrong as they have over the last couple of years they leave themselves and our organisation open to legal action. If I was to tackle the present problem I think I would firstly educate the board as to their power and responsibility and how to act as a board and have their directives followed and what to do when there not. This might appear simplistic but if the foundations are not strong then the building will fall. I'm sorry to say it but I don't see casa's response to be over the top when you think of the implication's that it has for our organisation.

 

 

[flyerme]

site being down not helping the situation!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

[JEM]

Greetings all,

 

Is there something wrong with the RA Aus website? Is it down? I have been trying to connect to it for a while now but can't get to the home page. Maybe its only my PC. Can someone advise me here.

 

Cheers

 

JEM

 

 

[octave]

It looks like the site is down

 

 

[Guest john]

To All RAAus Members

 

An open letter signed by me, has been sent to the President Steve Runciman of RAAus who is the "Captain of the Ship" today stating that the RAAus website is down & they were to post the latest developments with respect to the CASA audit saga, & therefore if he could please advise at his earliest convenience the current status with respect to this matter.

 

If & when I get a response from Steve Runciman I will post it on this site.

 

 

[AM397]

Actually, an open letter is usually posted when it is sent, not when (if) it is replied to. However, I can see why you might want to wait a bit.