RAAus Fails CASA Audit Again

[Guest Andys@coffs]

You've been referring to a "team", and the "we are seeking" statement makes me very nervous, and implies a small number of hidden people with a hidden agenda.If past transparency is argued to be inadequate, then ambushing members at a public meeting is just as bad.

 

If you argue for transparency, you have to be transparent yourself.

 

If you argue incompetence, you have to have a clear alternative.

 

At the present time the members in general have not seen CASA documents referring to the central issue of Audit failures; if you don't know what the problem is then how could you possibly put forward a fix.

Turbs....... I am part of a team and I have just asked the members of that team if I can realease names and contact details.

 

I dont believe for one moment there is any intent to hide nor will there be any hidden agenda, We are communicating 10-20times a day by email and by teleconference every few days. There is heaps to do so if people are concerned then ask and I'll try and address the concerns. Please dont read the fact that all in the group dont post here ( or even are registered as members here) as a hidden agenda.

 

Its pretty clear that in reading what Ive written over teh last few months that Don Ramsay and David Isaac are part of the team and I dont for one moment believe they are likely to hide behind anything, nor the others for that matter..... As soon as others agree me to releasing their details I will.

 

Lastly, as I keep saying the group I belong to wants a General meeting and we are working to achieve it. What happens at the meeting will be a function of teh members present. If it were true that we had a hidden agenda would I be asking...in fact begging...members to come to the meeting and ensure that no small group ca hijack teh entire outcome? In fact you suggest we could do that and my fear is that in the abscense of a substantial membership attendance "any group could do that" I know our groups aim and they are IMHO honourable, I cant say teh same for every other possible motion from the floor....So we need a meeting, it iontroduces risk, the best way of mitigating that risk is to have members present at teh meeting.

 

Do you see it any differently?

 

Andy

 

Edit:- Carol Richards is part of the group she posts here under the username "Cazza"

 

 

[David Isaac]

Also Tubz, your private advice to many of us individually is appreciated and respected, we collectively need to get this as transparent as possible.

 

 

[nomadpete]

Ian,

 

Would it be possible for a online 'interview' to be set up when elections come around? I would like to hear the candidates speak and have a opportunity to ask a few questions. That way I would be empowered and have the knowledge required to make an informed decision and actually feel that my vote really counts ! If RAAus won't do it on their website, would you consider doing it?

 

Peter t

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

Turbs....... I am part of a team... Don Ramsay and David Isaac are part of the team ... wants a General meeting and we are working to achieve it. What happens at the meeting will be a function of teh members present. ... Carol Richards is part of the group she posts here under the username "Cazza"

With a Dream Team like that, our future is looking a little brighter. Now its really up to the membership to overcome apathy and get involved.

 

 

[Powerin]

There's been some discussion of getting rid of the "executive". However, an executive commonly exists on many boards ostensibly to take care of minor day to day decisions or emergency decisions without needing a full board vote...but, of course, then informing the full board of those decisions. If you want remove the "executive" concept from RAAus a further change to the constitution is required. Here's the relevant bit.....

 

"The President, Secretary and Treasurer shall form the Executive of the Association and

 

shall be responsible for all matters relating to the affairs of the Association whenever the

 

Board is not meeting and, subject to any decisions of the Board, shall make all the

 

decisions necessary in relation to the Association's business and shall act in the case of

 

emergency."

 

 

[David Isaac]

There's been some discussion of getting rid of the "executive". However, an executive commonly exists on many boards ostensibly to take care of minor day to day decisions or emergency decisions without needing a full board vote...but, of course, then informing the full board of those decisions. If you want remove the "executive" concept from RAAus a further change to the constitution is required. Here's the relevant bit....."The President, Secretary and Treasurer shall form the Executive of the Association and

 

shall be responsible for all matters relating to the affairs of the Association whenever the

 

Board is not meeting and, subject to any decisions of the Board, shall make all the

 

decisions necessary in relation to the Association's business and shall act in the case of

 

emergency."

The point of worthy note that our current executive appear to disregard is ... "... and, subject to any decisions of the Board,"

 

 

[Guest john]

To All Interested RAAus Members,

 

Since the Board Executive are ultimately responsible for the organisations decisions & since the incompetent CEO has submited his resignation to the Board, then the normal procedure is for the CEO to clear out his desk immediatley , go & is not required to return to the organistaion he is leaving in a mess.

 

The abovementioned marching procedures are the responsibility of the Board Executive, which should be implemented forthwith or IPSO FACTO, & not at the beckoning of the CEO when he feels like it.

 

 

[Powerin]

The point of worthy note that our current executive appear to disregard is ... "... and, subject to any decisions of the Board,"

I think you could interpret that phrase to mean that the executive is subject to board decisions already made but executive decisions that don't go against previous board decisions would be OK. Not saying it's good...just one interpretation.

 

 

[Captain]

Hi All,Some clarification. We failed four audits in a row, not three. The Board is yet to see the CASA report on the last CASA audit, so I can't make official comment. I do know some unofficial reasons from a private chat with CASA. We are currently waiting for the Ex to release the report to the full Board.

 

Although the Board do only meet two times a year officially, most also meet at Natfly unofficially and there is a very good communication system via the Board forum and Board email process. Full Board communication is often done on a daily basis, with numerous emails going back and forward. As for more official Board meetings, well you people DO call the shots. If the majority want more Board meetings then it will be done. However you must look at the cost benefit basis. You, the members will end up paying for it in higher fees. My personal view is the extra cost would not outweigh the benefit.

 

One of our big issues is lack of communication. This works both ways. You guys must keep in contact with your local Rep. This keeps him/her accountable and you informed. If you don't like the answers and communication you get, then vote them out. Don't now say "But that is another two years away". You people now have the power to easily call a GM and vote them out in a month.

 

Let me state yet again. This is your Association. You people (the Members) have all the power. You just need to use it.

 

John McK

John,

 

Thanks again for posting here. You deserve a medal.

 

Will you please advise whether the Board has received and ratified the audited accounts, and if so roughly when did you receive them?

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[kaz3g]

Carol has been there and I have supported her stand. I concur with her views. When Tizzard called her "that woman". he lost me forever.I was present at the board meeting when that was said . It's not an appropriate way to deal with an elected board member or anybody... period!!!! Nev

That's simply appalling. If proven, it would likely lead to both Mr Tizzard and the RAAus facing significant compensation payouts for sex discrimination.

 

But hey, what's another law suit or two???

 

Kaz

 

 

[ave8rr]

That's simply appalling. If proven, it would likely lead to both Mr Tizzard and the RAAus facing significant compensation payouts for sex discrimination.But hey, what's another law suit or two???

 

Kaz

So is it true that Mr T will be staying on doing projects after 04th Jan 13??

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

So is it true that Mr T will be staying on doing projects after 04th Jan 13??

I believe the most accurate response would be that the only constant is change....sometimes moreso than others......

 

 

[FlyingVizsla]

I would not support his retention to research "complex issues" - this was my assessment of one of his attempts. This thread started when the previous CEO departed.

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/new-ceo.10370/#post-103095

 

 

[JohnMcK]

John, without reading the Constitution again I didn't think the Executive had the power to operate independently from the total board - particularly if they are witholding reports which have led to members' aircraft being effectively grounded, and renewals delayed.If board members are not yet aware of the reasons the people they represent are being grounded, I would have expected some vigorous action at board level - people are losing in some cases substantial amounts of money, and they would be leaving themselves open knowing there were major issues, but not doing anything to fix them.

Hi Turbo,

 

I asked the President today if he had received the formal CASA Audit report yet. He said no.

 

CASA can sometimes take some time, as I understand it, they run a lot of stuff through their legal people first.

 

There are a lot of people putting in a great effort to fix things, and I am fully aware our distributors and manufactures are hurting big time, and I really feel for them.

 

All I know at this stage is our paperwork and procedures were not up to scratch. Were CASA nit picking? I really don't know, but I can understand they would have, by this stage, demanded zero tolerance of any errors.

 

Cheers,

 

John McK

 

 

[John G]

so all this drama is based on a "report, RAA haven't received??

 

Take a Bex and lie down! Nothing with CASA will happen during the duration of your hissy fit.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Hi Turbo,I asked the President today if he had received the formal CASA Audit report yet. He said no.

 

CASA can sometimes take some time, as I understand it, they run a lot of stuff through their legal people first.

 

There are a lot of people putting in a great effort to fix things, and I am fully aware our distributors and manufactures are hurting big time, and I really feel for them.

 

All I know at this stage is our paperwork and procedures were not up to scratch. Were CASA nit picking? I really don't know, but I can understand they would have, by this stage, demanded zero tolerance of any errors.

 

Cheers,

 

John McK

The legals involved in this could be mind boggling. Those out of pocket now as a result of the "CASA Audit" where the "Audit Report" was not made available at the time should keep a note of this for their lawyers. there will be a legal definition of when the audit report becomes effective.

 

 

[John G]

The legals involved in this could be mind boggling. Those out of pocket now as a result of the "CASA Audit" where the "Audit Report" was not made available at the time should keep a note of this for their lawyers. there will be a legal definition of when the audit report becomes effective.

I think the CASA lawyers are better resourced than ours would be. In the GA and Airline world, CASA can immediately suspend an AOC and provide reasons later. Such drastic action is usually only taken when serious "Safety Concerns" are found and usually only when there are fare paying pasengers involved.

 

Using the same powers to suspend RA-Aus ability to renew registrations without written notice and explanation is a nonsence. I don't understand why the President and the entire Board are not camped on CASA's and the Ministers doorstep demanding a "Please Explain".

 

 

[David Isaac]

... I don't understand why the President and the entire Board are not camped on CASA's and the Ministers doorstep demanding a "Please Explain".

I suspect because they are as guilty as sin and have not actioned what they have committed to do in the preceding three failed audits. On what moral basis would they be able to justify 'camping on CASA's doorstep I wonder?

 

 

[facthunter]

I'm with you John G. The big stick and grounding might be appropriate where thousands of passengers an airline ststem integrity etc are affected. If the audit on which this is based is not yet provided, seems like a real catch 22. The board would be scared of CASA. That's the way CASA likes it. They will always be able to find some fault no matter where you are.

 

4 audits is bullshit. In that situation you wouldn't know whether you are arthur or martha

 

This is so bad I am prepared to challenge the motives in this. ( I always have but NOW, more so) Is the real aim to finish the U/L movement off or wound it beyond repair or what? I need to see some evidence to the contrary at this point. The silly season is nearly upon us, when nothing of a serious nature can be done for about 6 weeks. Surely some planes over which there has been no problem could be allowed , and gradually open it up to the areas of most difficulty.

 

Rather than just doing audits and failing them has CASA proposed a pathway/result they would approve, or are they like most councils that just keep knocking back the plans? Then when you jump that hurdle , they pull out another list of permits you have to have as well. The comparison is that it can take as long as.... It's not their problem. Nev

 

 

[turboplanner]

I think the CASA lawyers are better resourced than ours would be. In the GA and Airline world, CASA can immediately suspend an AOC and provide reasons later. Such drastic action is usually only taken when serious "Safety Concerns" are found and usually only when there are fare paying pasengers involved.Using the same powers to suspend RA-Aus ability to renew registrations without written notice and explanation is a nonsence. I don't understand why the President and the entire Board are not camped on CASA's and the Ministers doorstep demanding a "Please Explain".

In my post I was not referring to RAA, but individual owners of flying schools, airfcraft, and any lawyers they hire.

 

 

[Captain]

Dear Nev, John & David,

 

We can speculate all we like.

 

The reason why we don't really know the facts is that the members have not be adequetely informed by their elected Reps.

 

The Prez says call your Rep, so does he really expect 13000 members to call 12 Reps?

 

Even with a part functional website the President should be able to further inform members with an A4 sized note, or better still, a recorded message.

 

But we have nothing, and a magazine that has been delayed with no pubication date given.

 

With modern communications, my grandson's Kindy does a better job at disceminating information than does this member's organisation.

 

And if the reasons aren't available for the 4th audit failure, let's just give consideration to the background and reasons for the 2nd and 3rd audit failures ............ or even the 1st.

 

Regards Geoff

 

PS I also note today that Tizzard can't even manage to cause the contact list on the RAA website to be updated in a timely manner to reflect Adam's assasination. These clowns are hopeless at the simple stuff. No wonder they fail when examined on the hard stuff.

 

 

[David Isaac]

In my post I was not referring to RAA, but individual owners of flying schools, airfcraft, and any lawyers they hire.

Anyone / business taking on CASA with Lawyers is either stark raving mad or equipped with balls so large the testosterone has masked good judgement ...

I will always remember what my barrister told me years ago in a court action I took against a major Telco :

 

"... remember David, if you want justice you wont get it from the Courts ... justice is only available to those who can afford it ..."

 

 

[facthunter]

Captain, I agree with everything you say about the structure, mangement and communication inadequacies We could rectify all of those ( hypothetically) and still have a problem with the aircraft not being able to fly. The show could be run by administrators/volunteers under the direction of CASA or whatever it takes. We may be past the point of reforming the structure and getting the audit OK in any reasonable timeframe for all the schools and some individuals out there. Every day this nonsense hangs over us we bleed. Tiger Airlines was grounded for a while and it had the Singapore show financing it.

 

We don't have any reserve resources. Caught between a court case that could break us (with NO end in sight after years), a grounded fleet because of compliance issues, or whatever. The need to restructure and reform the management, we had better start thinking real straight and get the important/ essential things done in the right order. Two things can be done at once. I would like to know the attitude/ motives of the CASA in this. Unless you do, you are doing something in the breeze. Nev

 

 

[Captain]

Captain, I agree with everything you say about the structure, mangement and communication inadequacies We could rectify all of those ( hypothetically) and still have a problem with the aircraft not being able to fly. The show could be run by administrators/volunteers under the direction of CASA or whatever it takes. We may be past the point of reforming the structure and getting the audit OK in any reasonable timeframe for all the schools and some individuals out there. Every day this nonsense hangs over us we bleed. Tiger Airlines was grounded for a while and it had the Singapore show financing it.We don't have any reserve resources. Caught between a court case that could break us (with NO end in sight after years), a grounded fleet because of compliance issues, or whatever. The need to restructure and reform the management, we had better start thinking real straight and get the important/ essential things done in the right order. Two things can be done at once. I would like to know the attitude/ motives of the CASA in this. Unless you do, you are doing something in the breeze. Nev

Nev.

 

We are in general agreement.

 

I'll wager that someone in the leadership of RAA knows a good amount of detail & background of what caused the 1st or 2nd or 3rd audit failure, be it Runciman, Middo or Tizz.

 

They must know as they say that they are working to fix it.

 

So why aren't they better informing their membership?

 

I estimate that it would just take an hour or 2 of someone's time to prepare a decent briefing for the membership.

 

In the companies with which I am involved, if the equivalent of such a thing happened in private enterprise, the MD would be arranging a presentation or an interview that would have a link placed on the website. If they didn't do that the shareholders would burn them. This circumstance is no different.

 

Regards Geoff

 

 

[facthunter]

Geoff. They have demonstrated a "seige" mentality. I have spent plenty of time in organistaions, where communication with every body was essential. They have not done well in this area. Some of what has been done is inept , to ill conceived and deceitfull. You have first hand experience of this.

 

To have a functioning organisation of the nature of this one, you have to keep nearly everybody with you. The other side of this is "you don't buy a dog, to bark yourself". If you have a good mechanic you don't have to watch over his shoulder. In fact he might feel if you know so much about it perhaps you should do it yourself.

 

I don't envy anybody in there at the moment the job they have. Nev