RAAus Fails CASA Audit Again

[Pete Greed]

EMG

 

Even from a distance most of us can appreciate that there are problems in the current RAAus governance/management relationship. While it is difficult on the outside to understand or apportion the current operational failings (because of a lack of member information), then surely the first question to the board is "do they recognise that there is a problem" and if the answer is yes "what is it, and how is it going to be fixed? Keep it simple and worthwhile information should flow. Make it complicated and the meeting will just bog down.

 

Pete

 

 

[turboplanner]

To DGL Fox

 

Some of the members have already discussed electronic two way meeting communications. If a voting module is added to this than what you are asking, which is probably what 12,000 others are asking would be available, and meetings would be far more transparent and democratic.

 

It also means that board meetings can be monthly and board members don't have to travel

 

It also removes the abuse of Executive powers since the members are going to be able to make decisions which suit the majority rather than the secret decisions which have got up people's noses.

 

So if that's what you want you have to work on it, you have to promote it, you have to get the members fired up about it.

 

It should have been in by the mid 1990's.

 

Re the two posts above: It may not be practical to incorporate this into the next General Meeting, but it is unlikely that this meeting will solve all issues anyway, so it would be worthwhile going to the meeting with a workable proposal which allows regular General meetings if required and electronic board meetings once a month and allows thousands of people to vote. You have to start somewhere.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

turbo,

 

That's the problem I think, it's not the future meetings that are the problem, sure we will have time to sort out some webinars or similar in time, it's this EGM, it may not solve all the issues but there are some very important decisions to be be made wouldn't you agree?

 

Yes we need to have this EGM as soon as possible but not before the accessibility issue for all members has been addressed and sorted out.

 

Maybe we will need this meeting just work out how this webinars for example, how they will be run and who will set them up on the day and on what site etc and then after that is worked out we call another meeting a month later so that everyone if they wish can join in.

 

I know I sound like a broken record but we really need as many members invoved with our organization as possible, I think this is the only way to stop the small groups from hijacking our meetings and doing things that the majority don't want to see happening and also by having high participation rates we can all monitor and control our executive group more effectively.

 

David L

 

 

[turboplanner]

I would expect this meeting to be a reflection of the nine threads on this form - many ideas coming from many directions, with emotions running sky high.

 

Two things are critical:

 

• The facts on why RAA failed the CASA audits, and how to get corrections done and members flying
   
   
  
• The abject failure of board members to communicate with the members who own the Association and elected them
   
   
  

 

 

The rest can follow

 

I agree that the push from members who are participating on this forum should be to get as many signatures and people along as possible, but I'm totally mystified by your comment "the only way to stop small groups from hijacking our meetings and doing things the majority don't want"

 

The problem is not groups hijacking meetings but a small Executive clique making all the decisions behind closed doors, even to the extent that Runciman's letter of resignation included an appalling attack on moderate board member John McKeown who is trying to communicate with members, and an exhortation that the board should stick together, presumably against the members - that's where your focus should be.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

Turbo,

 

What I mean by saying this is, that if there is low participation at these meetings there is always the possibility that a small group or groups can push there ideas and policies in a direction that may not be the way the majority want to go.

 

David L

 

 

[turboplanner]

Yes there is and you must set the organization to prevent that. In fact that's what the problem is now, so you need Constitutional changes to bulletproof the organization against any clique, but you have to be careful you don't wipe out groups of good hard working people (as in limited tenure where your good people are forced to stand on the sidelines grinding their teeth when tings go south).

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

we would be lucky to get 20 viewers, technology won't cure apathy.

Such faith in the members! Surely its time for another forum survey- who would like to attend a GM via the net, conference call, etc.

 

 

[turboplanner]

It has to happen OK, even if it means dragging the last of FT's mates out of the 20th century.

 

 

[Old Koreelah]

It has to happen OK, even if it means dragging the last of FT's mates out of the 20th century.

For decades the NSW Teachers Federation has run state-wide Skychannel meetings on major issues. Every reasonable-sized town in Australia has a pub, RSL or racecourse with a Skychannel dish, big screen, microphones, etc. Local hire costs are around $60 per session. It's all there set up waiting for us.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

President Runciman won't want to have 13000 watch him sit through the most uncomfortable AGM in RAA history. He'll do everything in his power to make it as small as possible.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

Yes Mr Slartingfartblaster ... damn I always ge that wrong ...This year I was not there at Heck Field and I believe the number was >150.

Typically when held in Cantberra, the number is shamefully much less, certainly, <20.

This figure alone show good reason to move the RAAus out of the ACT

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Have you ever seen the board or reps urging anyone to go to the AGM?

 

 

[Admin]

Have you ever seen the board or reps urging anyone to go to the AGM?

Yep, ME...when I was a rep

 

 

[facthunter]

Having been to a fairly intense one as Ian's proxy, and I have done a lot of these sorts of meetings in otherplaces, my view is that it would drive you to drink to just attend without a specific issue, that you wanted to speak to, or witness. Since some "in Camera" parts don't even have the CEO or staff there, obviously visitors would not be either AT THOSE TIMES... An EXTRAORdinary meeting is different matter as it is handling other matters, by request generally, and with the required notice and agenda being provided.. The ordinary office facilities might not be a big enough venue , hypothetically in some circumstances Nev

 

 

[68volksy]

Well the school had its first weekend of flying cancelled largely due to the registration issues. Our Gazelle was grounded due to maintenance being needed and the Jabiru's rego expired on the 29th of November. Fees paid about 3 weeks prior to expiry but still held up in the backlog. I'm quite sure there are some out there who'd fly it anyway but that's not the way we do things.

 

That's 2 full days flying down the drain...

 

 

[JohnMcK]

Have you ever seen the board or reps urging anyone to go to the AGM?

Hi Mr Fly-T

 

Myself and others worked real hard to get last years AGM held on a Saturday instead of Friday in Canberra, and this years AGM at Heck Field. We will try and have the 2013 AGM at another interstate central position.

 

Cheers

 

John McK

 

 

[fly_tornado]

I know Ian and John have been instrumental in getting a lot more involvement in the AGM, has this filtered up to exec? Heck Field meeting was wildly successful apart from the voting irregularities

 

 

[Teckair]

Have you ever seen the board or reps urging anyone to go to the AGM?

Yes.

 

 

[DGL Fox]

John McK,

 

I see you are the rep for SEQ, let me ask you as you are my rep, I don't know if this is the right forum to ask these questions but seeing we are talking about our Exec Reps I was wondering what our local reps are doing for our organization and us, so if I may,

 

• So John do you get around to many of the fly in's etc.
   
   
  
• What are you doing personally to encourage more activity within our area.
   
   
  
• Do you think it is a good idea for our elected area rep to be more pro active, for example, maybe a small news letter emailed out once a month to your local members to keep them abreast of what's going on within the board and other news that we may be interested in, maybe when and where members can meet you, things like that.
   
   
  
• Would you or do you have a table that you could set up at the flyin's you attend with some RA-AUS cards to encourge new memberships.
   
   
  
• I go to most of the flyin's around the SEQ and I must say I have never had the pleasure of meeting you, do RA- AUS give you name tag to clip on so that when people see it they know who you are and can come and say G'day and have a talk about what new things that are happening etc.
   
   
  

 

 

All of these things probably sound small but I believe this is an area that needs developing by our local reps, they need to portray a friendly demeanor and when someone asks a question they need to know the answers about what's going on.

 

This is all about the grass roots, getting new people interested in what we do and showing them we are friendly and easy going and approachable people, and not some nose high in sky types that think because we are pilots we are somehow better than everyone else, and yes I have seen these types of people within our ranks that wouldn't give you the time of day and it does nothing to promote us as a sport and organization.

 

David L

 

 

[Gentreau]

Is that within the time limit specified by the constitiution ?

 

When the members are so p****d off that they call an GM, does saving a few dollars matter that much ?

 

If saving money IS so important, why not move the board meeting to an earlier date ?

 

.

 

 

[Guest john]

Hi Mr Fly-TMyself and others worked real hard to get last years AGM held on a Saturday instead of Friday in Canberra, and this years AGM at Heck Field. We will try and have the 2013 AGM at another interstate central position.

 

Cheers

 

John McK

Hi John McK,

 

The EGM has been set down for 19.12.12, which I am unable to attend in person. Will you be attending this EGM, & if so would it be in order to give you my proxy to vote on any matter that you see fit for the bettrement of RAAus.

 

 

[Admin]

A discussion thread specifically on the General Meeting that has been slotted for early Feb has been started at:

 

http://www.recreationalflying.com/threads/raaus-general-meeting-called.52288/

 

 

[Teckair]

John McK,I see you are the rep for SEQ, let me ask you as you are my rep, I don't know if this is the right forum to ask these questions but seeing we are talking about our Exec Reps I was wondering what our local reps are doing for our organization and us, so if I may,

 

• So John do you get around to many of the fly in's etc.
   
   
  
• What are you doing personally to encourage more activity within our area.
   
   
  
• Do you think it is a good idea for our elected area rep to be more pro active, for example, maybe a small news letter emailed out once a month to your local members to keep them abreast of what's going on within the board and other news that we may be interested in, maybe when and where members can meet you, things like that.
   
   
  
• Would you or do you have a table that you could set up at the flyin's you attend with some RA-AUS cards to encourge new memberships.
   
   
  
• I go to most of the flyin's around the SEQ and I must say I have never had the pleasure of meeting you, do RA- AUS give you name tag to clip on so that when people see it they know who you are and can come and say G'day and have a talk about what new things that are happening etc.
   
   
  

 

 

All of these things probably sound small but I believe this is an area that needs developing by our local reps, they need to portray a friendly demeanor and when someone asks a question they need to know the answers about what's going on.

 

This is all about the grass roots, getting new people interested in what we do and showing them we are friendly and easy going and approachable people, and not some nose high in sky types that think because we are pilots we are somehow better than everyone else, and yes I have seen these types of people within our ranks that wouldn't give you the time of day and it does nothing to promote us as a sport and organization.

 

David L

Gee with people thinking Area Rep volunteers should do that on top of their other duties who would stand for the position? David if you think that is a good idea maybe you could do it yourself I am sure no one would stop you.

Richard.

 

 

[JohnMcK]

Hi David,

 

Normal procedure is to phone or email me. I am always available 24/7. But if you wish to ask here on this forum that is ok too. People I don't know personally generally show me courtesy by giving me their membership number so I can verify they are indeed members, when they ask RAA related questions. but I will answer your questions publically as best as I am able.

 

Sadly I haven't been to as many fly ins as I would like. From memory in my five years on the Board I have only been to four Inglewood fly ins, one Evans Head, one Raglin, all Naffly, two Avalon, all Boonah, two Cabolture, one Clifton, one Watts Bridge, and I organised and ran the RA-Aus on field presence at the last RAAF airshow at Amberley, where for the first time I gained permission for numbered aircraft fly in and land at Amberley.

 

Normally I could give you dates and times but I lost all my files in the big flood last year. Yes I know it is a poor excuse. If you have an interest here is my house with a cow on the roof. http://www.abc.net.au/news/2011-01-17/a-cow-stands-on-the-roof-of-a-house-near-ipswich/1908854

 

The rescuers tried to rescue the cow by trying to get it to jump back into the water. This cow was not stupid and the last thing on its mind was to jump back into the flood waters. The rescuers chased the cow around and around the roof breaking most of my tiles in the process.

 

I am always available to talk at any club meeting if asked, but I am careful not to step on toes as there are two other Reps in South Qld.

 

I made an attempt to communicate via a blog site, ( http://www.ragandtubeaviator.blogspot.com.au/) but as I didn't get much feedback I haven't updated it as I should.

 

Board members are not given access to members addresses or email addresses any more due to privacy issues and an incident some years ago now, where there was electioneering by incumbents using the mailing list giving them an unfair advantage.

 

I also post on this site when required, and I have stated publically on a number of occasions that I will never lie to the membership. If I am asked a direct question I will give a direct answer. I believe in honesty, transparency, and accountability.

 

David, you are most welcome to phone me anytime. Better yet. Please phone me David and we can go through in detail any RA-Aus issues that concern you. I publish my phone number in the magazine but here it is again. 0438728311. I will even call you back so the cost is on me. ( Not refunded)

 

Regards,

 

John McKeown

 

PS. Guys, I am trying to answer this from my phone and accidentally hit the wrong button. I am having to do a bit of editing on the fly.

 

John McK,I see you are the rep for SEQ, let me ask you as you are my rep, I don't know if this is the right forum to ask these questions but seeing we are talking about our Exec Reps I was wondering what our local reps are doing for our organization and us, so if I may,

 

• So John do you get around to many of the fly in's etc.
   
   
  
• What are you doing personally to encourage more activity within our area.
   
   
  
• Do you think it is a good idea for our elected area rep to be more pro active, for example, maybe a small news letter emailed out once a month to your local members to keep them abreast of what's going on within the board and other news that we may be interested in, maybe when and where members can meet you, things like that.
   
   
  
• Would you or do you have a table that you could set up at the flyin's you attend with some RA-AUS cards to encourge new memberships.
   
   
  
• I go to most of the flyin's around the SEQ and I must say I have never had the pleasure of meeting you, do RA- AUS give you name tag to clip on so that when people see it they know who you are and can come and say G'day and have a talk about what new things that are happening etc.
   
   
  

 

 

All of these things probably sound small but I believe this is an area that needs developing by our local reps, they need to portray a friendly demeanor and when someone asks a question they need to know the answers about what's going on.

 

This is all about the grass roots, getting new people interested in what we do and showing them we are friendly and easy going and approachable people, and not some nose high in sky types that think because we are pilots we are somehow better than everyone else, and yes I have seen these types of people within our ranks that wouldn't give you the time of day and it does nothing to promote us as a sport and organization.

 

David L

[winsor68]

Gee with people thinking Area Rep volunteers should do that on top of their other duties who would stand for the position? David if you think that is a good idea maybe you could do it yourself I am sure no one would stop you.Richard.

I thought David L's question was politely worded and think it was very pertinent. I think the point we need to take from this is the disconnect between the Board Members and the Members. I am not saying there is blame to be laid here... not at all... I am thinking it shows that the mechanism we currently employ simply doesn't work as effectively as it should.