RAAus Fails CASA Audit Again

[AM397]

Who knows what the reason or result will be. Maybe something simple or something really bad for us all. It could be an example of what happens when fools keep talking bad about our hobby. Some of the comments on this site about plane and engine types has done none of us any good. RaAus has been bagged as well as people in the office. When will some of the idiots start to understand the damage they do with all the negative postings. Do they think staff from CASA or the public don't read the comments? I am sure other factors also dont help, and many out of our control. However as Pilots we should be doing all we can to assist each other for the betterment of our hobby. I started in this game well before we had an RaAus or AUF, and many people pushed hard to get us to this point. We have had it pretty good. Now I see some of the negative posters all whooping on about this new situation. Let's hope that none of this is the case... Or some of those people will need to hide their own heads in shame.

 

That's my say

 

Mardy

I'm new, and not even a pilot yet, but I do have a modicum of understanding of how forums work. You're in effect arguing that we support the "agency" in question, regardless of what they do (or not do, as it were), that people should support and keep their mouths shut when it comes to safety, maintenance, possible problems with any product, agency, or issue.

 

In effect, you're blaming the messenger. It's not people being critical who caused Ra-Aus to not have their paperwork in order, to not meet the demands of CASA. It's not people being critical of Ra-Aus management who are to blame for ridiculous management and gung-ho (the "incident" involving Ian). That is all on the shoulders of the Ra-aus. Not on people blowing the whistle, or on the people who are in a really bad mood, since they're grounded because Ra-Aus doesn't seem to know what they're doing when it comes to paperwork.

 

It's a ridiculous notion - on any board - that people should just keep their mind shut about any issues, regardless of how serious they are. If Ra-Aus closes shop because of this, it's not the people who has been critical of them that is the cause. It's the ineptitude of the Ra-Aus people that will be the cause.

 

I am so worried, that I'm glad I can wait the situation, but in reality, I may opt to get a VH plane, simply because I won't be held hostage to other people's ineptitude and I certainly won't suffer people who try to shift the burden of guilt onto the messengers. In other words, problems and issues don't go away, simply because they're ignored. In fact, shining a light on a problem is the only way to solve it. You cannot solve it by ignoring it, and certainly not by encouraging the behaviour leading to issues, as would be the result if people were to follow you "suggestions"

 

 

[Admin]

Guys, in my opinion you can not blame CASA...they are doing a job not only to Australian standards but also to the standards set out all around the world...basically it is WORLD LAW

 

I have said it so many times before and have been saying for a long time...what are we paying the so called CASA guru CEO for?????????? Why is he even sitting in a chair that should be reserved for decent people with competent management skills and who wears the hearts and interests of RAAus members. We have a President who has less hours in his log book then some of the Junior Members that he ousted out of RAAus.

 

We have a board that every single one of them sat at the AGM and by not standing up and saying something, they all supported the President telling every single one of you lies. So to me, they all support the RAAus lying to all of you and you accept being lied to

 

All these groundings, LSA issues, lies, etc etc etc have all started since we got the current CEO and President...and it was the Secretary, another CASA guy, who read out to you all the Presidents lies at the AGM knowing that they were lies...so come on, put your hand up, who voted for him

 

But hey, let's all be apathetic until now when we can't register our aircraft, when we can't do this or that, when we had a chance to make a difference before but decided not to

 

I will not apologise for this outburst because I am so F'n livered at what has transpired over the last couple of years, what they continually do to all of us and why we continued to still vote them in to do this to us...All of this is pure MANAGEMENT, managing the requirements of one of our biggest stakeholders and they can't even do that, managing our other biggest stakeholder, YOU and ME, the members with lies...there is NO professional management, the people who say they are managing it all for us are continually showing us that they can't manage at all yet we all continue with our apathy.

 

 

[dodo]

Ian is right.

 

What disturbs me is that as usual, the board has told us nothing beyond "some issues with aircraft registration", blamed ona past employee. But the problems still exist.

 

What is going on? As usual, all we are told is a short statement that registrations cannot be issued or renewed. I think a more complete explanation of what is wrong with RA registrations is required.

 

I am also a bit surprised RA-AUS hasn't managed its relationship with CASA better - this is effectively a "third warning" becoming a final warning with decisive action. Why couldn't RA-AUS address the issues at the first or second warning? CASA has a long record of trying to resolve issues with discussion and patience up to a point, where they suddenly drop the discussion and just act.

 

...and again, what are the bloody issues?

 

On a more positive note, I think you could probably get an aircraft at a good price right now - just look for a very sensible, 10, 19, 25 or 28-rego which doesn't have any characteristics likely to be contentious!

 

dodo

 

 

[David Isaac]

I'm new, and not even a pilot yet, but I do have a modicum of understanding of how forums work. You're in effect arguing that we support the "agency" in question, regardless of what they do (or not do, as it were), that people should support and keep their mouths shut when it comes to safety, maintenance, possible problems with any product, agency, or issue.In effect, you're blaming the messenger. It's not people being critical who caused Ra-Aus to not have their paperwork in order, to not meet the demands of CASA. It's not people being critical of Ra-Aus management who are to blame for ridiculous management and gung-ho (the "incident" involving Ian). That is all on the shoulders of the Ra-aus. Not on people blowing the whistle, or on the people who are in a really bad mood, since they're grounded because Ra-Aus doesn't seem to know what they're doing when it comes to paperwork.

 

It's a ridiculous notion - on any board - that people should just keep their mind shut about any issues, regardless of how serious they are. If Ra-Aus closes shop because of this, it's not the people who has been critical of them that is the cause. It's the ineptitude of the Ra-Aus people that will be the cause.

 

I am so worried, that I'm glad I can wait the situation, but in reality, I may opt to get a VH plane, simply because I won't be held hostage to other people's ineptitude and I certainly won't suffer people who try to shift the burden of guilt onto the messengers. In other words, problems and issues don't go away, simply because they're ignored. In fact, shining a light on a problem is the only way to solve it. You cannot solve it by ignoring it, and certainly not by encouraging the behaviour leading to issues, as would be the result if people were to follow you "suggestions"

Thank you AM397,

I could not have said what you have stated any better.

 

 

[eightyknots]

Guys, in my opinion you can not blame CASA...they are doing a job not only to Australian standards but also to the standards set out all around the world...basically it is WORLD LAWI have said it so many times before and have been saying for a long time...what are we paying the so called CASA guru CEO for?????????? Why is he even sitting in a chair that should be reserved for decent people with competent management skills and who wears the hearts and interests of RAAus members. We have a President who has less hours in his log book then some of the Junior Members that he ousted out of RAAus.

 

We have a board that every single one of them sat at the AGM and by not standing up and saying something, they all supported the President telling every single one of you lies. So to me, they all support the RAAus lying to all of you and you accept being lied to

 

All these groundings, LSA issues, lies, etc etc etc have all started since we got the current CEO and President...and it was the Secretary, another CASA guy, who read out to you all the Presidents lies at the AGM knowing that they were lies...so come on, put your hand up, who voted for him

 

But hey, let's all be apathetic until now when we can't register our aircraft, when we can't do this or that, when we had a chance to make a difference before but decided not to

 

I will not apologise for this outburst because I am so F'n livered at what has transpired over the last couple of years, what they continually do to all of us and why we continued to still vote them in to do this to us...All of this is pure MANAGEMENT, managing the requirements of one of our biggest stakeholders and they can't even do that, managing our other biggest stakeholder, YOU and ME, the members with lies...there is NO professional management, the people who say they are managing it all for us are continually showing us that they can't manage at all yet we all continue with our apathy.

Every time I read of ineptitude, I wonder if another RA-Aus type organisation is required? As I said in another thread, nothing revs up an organisation so well as a bit of healthy competition. How about it?

 

 

[Ultralights]

From what I understand, the issue is with CASA, who cannot legally delegate authority to issue registrations and licenses etc, including AOC's. Maintenance authorities etc, to other entities, and not even CASA themselves have the legal power to issue conditions to those licenses and authorities mentioned.. Which brings into question the conditions on AOC'S issues to GA and airline operators. (but CASA won't do anything about that side of the issue, just smack RAAus around a bit till its sorted)

 

So basically RAAus cannot issue or transfers registrations of RAAus aircraft as CASA has no legal right to allow RAAus to register aircraft with the conditions that make our aircraft able to operate, the 560kg limit, the 2 seat max etc etc.

 

Or I could be totally wrong.. I guess we will know for sure on Monday.

 

 

[winsor68]

Who knows what the reason or result will be. Maybe something simple or something really bad for us all. It could be an example of what happens when fools keep talking bad about our hobby. Some of the comments on this site about plane and engine types has done none of us any good. RaAus has been bagged as well as people in the office. When will some of the idiots start to understand the damage they do with all the negative postings. Do they think staff from CASA or the public don't read the comments? I am sure other factors also dont help, and many out of our control. However as Pilots we should be doing all we can to assist each other for the betterment of our hobby. I started in this game well before we had an RaAus or AUF, and many people pushed hard to get us to this point. We have had it pretty good. Now I see some of the negative posters all whooping on about this new situation. Let's hope that none of this is the case... Or some of those people will need to hide their own heads in shame.That's my say

 

Mardy

It is good to hear your opinion Herm... But to blame "fools" who "keep talking bad about our hobby" although perhaps your gut instinct... the facts are that this issue with Ra-Aus didn't just arise overnight... IMO if more members had taken some time to stand up and voice an opinion things may have been saved. Regardless of what we fly... There is a framework that needs to exist to cultivate a culture of safety... This can exist without harming anyone right to fly IMO and should. This framework broke... and has been left running at full throttle for a few years allowing this mess to happen...

 

I just hope the old AUF can be saved out of this... it was unique IMO.

 

 

[dodo]

Ultralights, if that was true, why haven't HGFA registrations been shut down as well? This looks like the CASA RA-Aus audit issue, as only RA has been affected (to the best of my knowledge)

 

dodo

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Whatever is going on, it can't be good for Oz aviation!

 

 

[ave8rr]

VH registration would probably be cheaper and a once off, there are many other countries in the World ultralights/microlights/LSA (call them what you will), are handled by the regulator without any apparent problems!

Agree HH. NZ for example has all aircraft on the NZCAA register. Aircraft are then grouped. Single seat are class one microlights. Two seat are class two microlights etc.

All class 2 microlights can be used for training as I understand it (No 19 versus 24 versus 55 versus LSA etc etc) . All aircraft have an annual inspection carried out by an authorised person (RAAus level 2 or higher) which I think is probably a good thing and cost is free or minimal. I am sure some of our NZ forum followers can clarify this.

 

I still think CASA would not of been setting up a sports aviation section IF they were not intending to take sport aviation under their umbrella.

 

Cheers

 

 

[AM397]

Thank you AM397,I could not have said what you have stated any better.

Thanks a bunch, David, but I'm sure you could

 

 

[cscotthendry]

I'm a bit mystified after reading the RA-Aus statement, as to how on earth some commenters here have extrapolated it into a grounding of the whole RA-Aus fleet of aircraft.

 

The statement I read said only that new registrations and transfers are not being processed. Nowhere did I read ANYTHING that said any other aircraft could not be flown!

 

Did I miss something?

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

Throw the powers that be a shovel to help them dig themselves out and I bet they will only dig themselves a deeper hole................to hide in!!!! Lets get the ball rolling on removing the diseased portions of RAAUS.

 

Whats the first step?????????????????????? No more talk, lets just do it!

 

 

[David Isaac]

I'm a bit mystified after reading the RA-Aus statement, as to how on earth some commenters here have extrapolated it into a grounding of the whole RA-Aus fleet of aircraft.The statement I read said only that new registrations and transfers are not being processed. Nowhere did I read ANYTHING that said any other aircraft could not be flown!

Did I miss something?

One of our members had a conversation with RA Aus staff and a potential general grounding comment was allegedly made by that staff member. But in any case no renewals, no transfers and no new registrations unequivocally grounds those aircraft so affected.

 

 

[Ches]

I phoned up a board member this morning asking him what goes on??? He said that Raa failed another audit from Casa. The way it reads on the Raa web site is so nicely worded that you would think nothing is amiss?????

 

 

[David Isaac]

There is already under way a proposal to call a general meeting of members to be held in Canberra either immediately preceding or following the February Board meeting. Documents outlining the issues to be discussed at the meeting will be circulated shortly and will be seeking support.

 

Under the latest constitutional amendment we need 100 signatures or 5% of the membership (whichever is the lesser) supporting the proposed meeting for the secretary to be required to call the general meeting.

 

This document will be circulated shortly seeking RA Aus member support. If you want to support the proposed agenda you will need to sign the document and have it returned to the nominated person by a specified time frame.

 

A thread will be started on this proposal shortly seeking support. Please watch this space.

 

 

[fly_tornado]

Thanks David. Some overdue action from the members when this should be coming from the board...

 

 

[Pilot Pete]

I'll definately sign.Can't wait to see an end to this.

 

On another note, maybe NZ has it right with its two organizations and its insurance setup.Competition would do RAAUS good and help keep them a bit more honest and upfront.

 

 

[Ches]

There is already under way a proposal to call a general meeting of members to be held in Canberra either immediately preceding or following the February Board meeting. Documents outlining the issues to be discussed at the meeting will be circulated shortly and will be seeking support.Under the latest constitutional amendment we need 100 signatures or 5% of the membership (whichever is the lesser) supporting the proposed meeting for the secretary to be required to call the general meeting.

 

This document will be circulated shortly seeking RA Aus member support. If you want to support the proposed agenda you will need to sign the document and have it returned to the nominated person by a specified time frame.

 

A thread will be started on this proposal shortly seeking support. Please watch this space.

Thanks David. Hope that members can support anything that can improve things above the present situation

 

 

[robinsm]

I think the idea of a second organisation is the way to go. As the old saying goes ... "it keeps the b...ds honest". In this case I think NZ leads very well and has a lot fewer problems than we do. If the Raa-Aus has failed an audit then it raises the question of the competence of our entire senior management from the silent CEO down. I for one will be supporting heavily a second organisation in some form and will be putting my hand up at the next Raa-aus elections. I am not typically a joiner but the troubles and complaints aired on this forum and in discussions with many other Raa-aus members has driven me to it.

 

I thought the idea of this organisation was to make it easy for people to enjoy flying on a budget and have fun, not become someones cannon fodder in their plans for world domination and political ambitions.

 

I may be fairly naive but I enjoy my flying and these emus (flightless birds) are taking a lot of the mental pleasure out of it.

 

Maybe we should lock up the liquor cabinet in the office for a while.

 

 

[Guest ozzie]

My granddad had a good saying for situations like this

 

"As useless as tits on a bull"

 

If we have to go to VH rego then it would be a shame to see Middo lose his -001 number for the Drifter.

 

 

[turboplanner]

One dark night Oz.........

 

 

[winsor68]

My granddad had a good saying for situations like this"As useless as tits on a bull"

If we have to go to VH rego then it would be a shame to see Middo lose his -001 number for the Drifter.

Perhaps the AUF as it was intended can still be saved?

 

 

[facthunter]

What is the difference between a plane that was just processed and one that is coming up for processing? Tell me please.. I said before This has got to be an over reaction . CASA have done it before and AOPA sorted it out. CASA said without an ASIC you could not put a RAAus plane into the air. WRONG.

 

Who is being penalised? THE MEMBERS. . CASA don't have to answer to anyone but the minister, but I really do wonder whether it is necessary to GROUND the fleet, but it actually only when they come up for processing. Does that add up to you? perhaps CASA have put too much work onto the RAAus. They certainly are not assisting with the court case that must be diverting some of their ( RAAus) attention and in fact could completely bankrupt the organisation and put it out of business, when in fact they are co-joined to the action. CASA should be aiding the organisation and not knocking it around. They are the ones who sent a boy on a man's errand. I get a feeling that they as they are run now don't get what the RAAus is all about. since it's not an airline or a warbird..Nev

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Thanks David. Some overdue action from the members when this should be coming from the board...

The group that got the last constitutional amendments through are working as David said towards a GM in February next year. Nothing can be achieved here through talk alone ( which is not to say dont talk, but dont let tough talk be only as far as it goes, hold on to the concern and turn concern into action!!) . Only a GM has the ability to dig down discover and enact appropriate change!

 

RAA may not have written the fleet is grounded and technically that is true the entire fleet isnt grounded, but sans any change it will be fully grounded in 12 months time......

 

I cant speak for others, but for me alone the 3 sentances on the RAA website is entirely unsatisfactory. It once again smacks of a complete lack of transparency. For example can anyone definitively answer the following questions:-

 

1) Did RAA fail a CASA audit?

 

2) Was it a minor or major issue? If minor is the action a result of CASA loosing patience with us?

 

3) Is the CASA position that RAA not do X,Y, and Z a formal direction, or a strong suggestion? In otherwords is it a legally enforceable direction?

 

4) What is required to have this reversed

 

5) How long will it take to resolve?

 

6) What structural changes have taken place to ensure no repeats?

 

7) How legally exposed are we both from CASA and from aircraft importers and owners. Will owners go after RAA or the importer, if te importer has $ and RAA has $$$$ then what impact legally does that have.

 

8) as an adjunct to 7) what insurance coverage is available to cover any negative outcomes and will it be sufficient......

 

I dont believe we should have to formally ask the questions above, rather throuh a culture of disclosure the answers should be coming to us. Now, given this underwent serious escalation in the last 48hrs people will say that having those answers now is an unreasonable expectation and if this was truely something we havent heard of before then thatclaim of 48hrs being unreasonable would be appropriate, however if what I have heard is correct this is just the latest escalation in an activity that has been underway for many months now. Disclosure of the problem has been made but only at a very superficial layer and more done to settle than inform. Clearly no-one should be settled at present.

 

Andy