RAAus Fails CASA Audit Again

[68volksy]

Unfortunate that CASA had to step in with the big stick in this case but I'm very happy with the progress being made. Takes guts in these situations to step up and get the work done rather than sit on your hands and whinge so well done to the guys getting the documents in order finally.

 

They're also happy for any help that people can give - especially during the week. So if anyone's around the Canberra area and has some spare time it might help everyone out if you give them a call.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

How long is a piece of string????

The distance between the two ends....thats how long

 

 

[billwoodmason]

Turbs, I don't know of any other rego's to go through other than 68volksy's post above. It would appear though that RAA is now making a serious attempt at making inroads into the backlog. This whole thing smells to high heaven, why did it get out of hand so quickly ? and why did CASA get out the big stick ?. All they've done collectively is hurt the membership. For mine there is a lot of unanswered questions !!.

 

 

[turboplanner]

Two registrations constitute serious inroads?

 

Sure there will be more than two, but it's a bit rough on all the others who are parked to be suggesting the problem is all over.

 

 

[billwoodmason]

Turbs - I didn't for 1 minute suggest that the problems are all over - I feel for everyone else who is waiting patiently for notification they are back in the air. I have to say that I was seriously pissed (off) when I was told I was caught up in this and wanted heads to roll.

 

My comment was meant to reflect that there appears to be movement in the right direction and the congratulations were meant as encouragement to get on with getting the membership back in the air.. Getting the backlog of registrations completed is only going to get RAA back to where we were before this crisis began to show symptoms. It ain't over by a long way !!.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Unfortunate that CASA had to step in with the big stick in this case but I'm very happy with the progress being made. Takes guts in these situations to step up and get the work done rather than sit on your hands and whinge so well done to the guys getting the documents in order finally.They're also happy for any help that people can give - especially during the week. So if anyone's around the Canberra area and has some spare time it might help everyone out if you give them a call.

I beg to differ. It takes guts to stand up and say "we're way over our heads and that's how we got into this mess". To date this has not happened. All I see is a bunch of wishy washy statements on the website that don't really tell us anything. How big is this mess? How many unregistered aircraft are we talking about? How many are getting registered each day? How many renewals and new registration requests are coming in each day? What sort of time frames are people looking at to have their aircraft registered? What was the safety alert? What were the circumstances that led to the non-compliances and the inability to register aircraft? Why did we sack a tech manager in the middle of this mess when this is arguably the time that we need him most? If they are so busy concentrating on registering aircraft right now then how are they going to ensure a suitable person is hired for the GM/CEO position? Who will do the screening? Against what criteria will applicants be assessed? What will the successful applicants performance metrics be? And how does this align with the longer term vision/goals of RA-Aus? What are the longer term goals? Etc.

 

All I've heard so far is a vague statement that they are registering more aircraft each day than they are getting requests. Whether it's one more or one hundred more though is anyone's guess. Why? Because nothing has changed. None of the board members has taken five minutes out of their busy schedules to inform us of the facts. We simply rely on hear say and third hand information. If they had guts they'd let us know the true situation.

 

As for the help well I'm right here in Canberra and have time and expertise to assist. I've offered it to a number of board members. Still waiting to hear back. Call me cynical but my thoughts are this - they don't want any assistance from anyone but themselves, that way they can propose a toast to themselves at the end and claim that it was a job well done without anyone knowing the truth.

 

So, who is coming to the general meeting?

 

 

[Tiger]

I hope to fly down south for the meeting, expensive from up here in Cairns, but that is what I feel I need to do to try and get things back on track.

 

Re rego renewals, it is NOW 12 months too late for to be starting to get things back in order. The failure of the previous 3 audits would have only required a check list to be made then, and duly amended as they found differnt items, and we would never had had this situation.

 

Lack of management, lack of skills , board who does not really care, etc, etc.

 

 

[Captain]

What were the circumstances that led to the non-compliances and the inability to register aircraft?

Sickie,

 

FYI, I emailed all Board Members last week asking a number of questions including asking for details of & around each of the Audit failures.

 

Steve R responded in a reasonable timeframe and advised that this is information that is "Board In-Confidence", but that a full and comprehensive report on these issues would be made available to members.

 

I then asked when that would occur and was advised that he was not in a position to advise when that would happen, as all effort was going into solving the present issues.

 

I was then asked by one of the Board Members not to ask any more questions about the President's resignations as that was diverting attention & effort away from the solving of the issues, so I can only assume from that response that those who were fielding my questions were all in Canberra beavering away checking member's rego paperwork.

 

Also FYI, I suggested that given that response, it does not appear to be consistant that RAA intended to close during the working days between Xmas and New Year while so many aircraft were still likely to be grounded, to which I was advised that this was under review and members would be further advised on that on the RAA website.

 

Regards Geoff

 

PS - When checking the Latest News, on my brouser when I go to the "News" section of the RAA website there are several items that do not automatically get picked up and listed in the "Latest News" box on the home page. Do others find the same thing?

 

 

[David Isaac]

.... Steve R responded in a reasonable timeframe and advised that this is information that is "Board In-Confidence", but that a full and comprehensive report on these issues would be made available to members.

I outright reject that the Board can make any legitimate claim to "Board in Confidence" on a matter that has directly impacted the entire membership of RA Aus. I challenge the Board to establish that what they claim is "Board in Confidence" could in any manner pass the legal test to having a "Quality of confidence" about it to the extent that it be excluded from the general membership of RA Aus. How could it, what basis could there possibly be to hide behind this lily livered excuse to prevent the membership from finding out the basis for RA Aus management failing FOUR consecutive audits?We will wait no longer for this inappropriate abuse of privilege; a privilege granted to the Board by us the members of RA Aus.

 

We demand to know the basis of how you failed FOUR audits resulting in a safety alert being issued by CASA.

 

Yes ... and I know that several of you read this forum and I challenge any of you to come on here and tell us why you will NOT tell us why we failed and the basis of the CASA safety alert.

 

 

[pylon500]

PS - When checking the Latest News, on my brouser when I go to the "News" section of the RAA website there are several items that do not automatically get picked up and listed in the "Latest News" box on the home page. Do others find the same thing?

Don't tell everyone lest the management realise the laundry is there as well and remove it!

In all fairness though, I feel that most of the overall problem stems from a failed interaction between the 'Office' and aircraft owners/importers with regard to poor paperwork handling.

 

I feel CASA should really have put in some junior 'checker' for 12 months after the first failure to be sure that ALL details were included in registration paperwork before accepting.

 

This may have slowed down many rego's a week or so, but everything would then be 100% compliant, and we wouldn't have the $h!‡ fight that's going on now.

 

EDIT-{Italics} I thought that bit of the sentence, but didn't type it (or check it)

 

 

[fly_tornado]

the military mind at work, mark everything questionable as "top secret"...

 

 

[Captain]

In all fairness though, I feel that most of the overall problem stems from a failed interaction between the 'Office' and aircraft owners/importers with regard to poor paperwork handling.I feel CASA should really have put in some junior 'checker' to be sure that ALL details were included in registration paperwork before accepting.

This may have slowed down many rego's a week or so, but everything would then be 100% compliant, and we wouldn't have the $h!‡ fight that's going on now.

I agree Pyles.

 

It isn't rocket surgery to set up such a system & some appropriate checks & balances + a degree of peer review, is it?

 

 

[turboplanner]

I outright reject that the Board can make any legitimate claim to "Board in Confidence" on a matter that has directly impacted the entire membership of RA Aus. I challenge the Board to establish that what they claim is "Board in Confidence" could in any manner pass the legal test to having a "Quality of confidence" about it to the extent that it be excluded from the general membership of RA Aus. How could it, what basis could there possibly be to hide behind this lily livered excuse to prevent the membership from finding out the basis for RA Aus management failing FOUR consecutive audits?We will wait no longer for this inappropriate abuse of privilege; a privilege granted to the Board by us the members of RA Aus.

 

We demand to know the basis of how you failed FOUR audits resulting in a safety alert being issued by CASA.

 

Yes ... and I know that several of you read this forum and I challenge any of you to come on here and tell us why you will NOT tell us why we failed and the basis of the CASA safety alert.

These issues warrant a daily bulletin from the elected committee, so that flying schools and dealers can take appropriate financial action for their survival

 

"Board in Confidence" is just another example of how egos, perhaps in the past, have built what are Committee positions into a pretend Board of Directors; people begin to act the part and lose sight of their obligations to fellow members.

 

For the few who have been agitating to upgrade RAA to Company status, this is an example of where that is leading - there would be a greater disconnect.

 

The word Board needs to be expunged from the Constitution and be replaced by Committee, and the Executive's powers need to be limited to only items which could not reasonably be decided by an electronic Committee Meeting (and that would be virtually none), and then be subject to ratification at the next Committee Meeting.

 

If board members contravene the Incorporated Associations Act, they forfeit their positions, so they may not have to wait around until what looks increasingly inevitable occurs.

 

 

[damkia]

These issues warrant a daily bulletin from the elected committee, so that flying schools and dealers can take appropriate financial action for their survival"Board in Confidence" is just another example of how egos, perhaps in the past, have built what are Committee positions into a pretend Board of Directors; people begin to act the part and lose sight of their obligations to fellow members.

 

For the few who have been agitating to upgrade RAA to Company status, this is an example of where that is leading - there would be a greater disconnect.

 

The word Board needs to be expunged from the Constitution and be replaced by Committee, and the Executive's powers need to be limited to only items which could not reasonably be decided by an electronic Committee Meeting (and that would be virtually none), and then be subject to ratification at the next Committee Meeting.

 

If board members contravene the Incorporated Associations Act, they forfeit their positions, so they may not have to wait around until what looks increasingly inevitable occurs.

Replace "Board Meetings" with monthly General Meetings, open to all members to attend. Hold meetings in WA /Tas (alternating), SA, Vic, NSW, Qld, on a rotating basis with NatFly being the other General Meeting and a lay month over Xmas/New Year. This allows people to have two opportunities to raise issues in their state at a General Meeting per year, and keeps the Committee "on notice" of their performance with people being able to sit in on the discussion. The General Meeting could incorporate the Committee Meeting after the actual "general" part of the meeting with attendance by a nominated/volunteer number of scrutineers from the general members (3 or so). All Committee members are to attend all General Meetings unless there are extenuating circumstances. Meetings to be held on Sat/Sun to facilitate travel for weekday workers on the Committee and give the general members a better chance to get to meetings

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Replace "Board Meetings" with monthly General Meetings, open to all members to attend. Hold meetings in WA /Tas (alternating), SA, Vic, NSW, Qld, on a rotating basis with NatFly being the other General Meeting and a lay month over Xmas/New Year. This allows people to have two opportunities to raise issues in their state at a General Meeting per year, and keeps the Committee "on notice" of their performance with people being able to sit in on the discussion. The General Meeting could incorporate the Committee Meeting after the actual "general" part of the meeting with attendance by a nominated/volunteer number of scrutineers from the general members (3 or so). All Committee members are to attend all General Meetings unless there are extenuating circumstances. Meetings to be held on Sat/Sun to facilitate travel for weekday workers on the Committee and give the general members a better chance to get to meetings

The principle I agree with, however the practical realities of this with a board of a bakers dozen is that the majority of the committee would need to travel say 11 travellers each time, say $1000 per trip, that would infer if we had 10 a year that the costs would be $110,000. Personally I feel that with an approach to embrace technology we can achieve as good or better outcomes for a fraction of the cost. It would also suggest that 11 of the board would be away of travel (They are volunteers) for a fair chunk of weekends in the year or leave days if during the week, either of those is probably unacceptable to volunteers. Using technology they can all be at home and have the whole thing over and done within a few hours rather than a few days.

 

Andy

 

 

[Captain]

The principle I agree with, however the practical realities of this with a board of a bakers dozen is that the majority of the committee would need to travel say 11 travellers each time, say $1000 per trip, that would infer if we had 10 a year that the costs would be $110,000. Personally I feel that with an approach to embrace technology we can achieve as good or better outcomes for a fraction of the cost. It would also suggest that 11 of the board would be away of travel (They are volunteers) for a fair chunk of weekends in the year or leave days if during the week, either of those is probably unacceptable to volunteers. Using technology they can all be at home and have the whole thing over and done within a few hours rather than a few days.

And this would stop this ridiculous requirement that applies at present, where the Board meets face-to-face for a couple of days to handle the backlog of items.

 

And formal monthly electronic meetings will ensure that the Committee is provided with monthly reports from the Treasurer ........... which provides an increase in governance and reporting but does not require a bigger effort for a competent Treasurer.

 

I totally support monthly electronic meetings but would suggest that face-to-face meeting are still needed each 3 or 4 months, say one at Natfly, one associated with the AGM (if that is not to be at Natfly), then just 1 or 2 others where travel would be needed.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

And this would stop this ridiculous requirement that applies at present, where the Board meets face-to-face for a couple of days to handle the backlog of items.And formal monthly electronic meetings will ensure that the Committee is provided with monthly reports from the Treasurer ........... which provides an increase in governance and reporting but does not require a bigger effort for a competent Treasurer.

 

I totally support monthly electronic meetings but would suggest that face-to-face meeting are still needed each 3 or 4 months, say one at Natfly, one associated with the AGM (if that is not to be at Natfly), then just 1 or 2 others where travel would be needed.

NatFly can't be the AGM unless you want to move Easter. The AGM has to be within 5 months of the end of the financial year. Given that RA-Aus' financial year ends in June this rules out NatFly.

 

 

[damkia]

NatFly can't be the AGM unless you want to move Easter. The AGM has to be within 5 months of the end of the financial year. Given that RA-Aus' financial year ends in June this rules out NatFly.

Easter is usually late March to mid April IIRC - well within the 5 Months to end of June

From http://www.smart.net/~mmontes/ec-cal.html

 

"...Easter is the Sunday after the Paschal Full Moon. The Paschal Full Moon may occur from March 21 through April 18, inclusive...."

 

 

[Guest airsick]

Easter is usually late March to mid April IIRC - well within the 5 Months to end of JuneFrom http://www.smart.net/~mmontes/ec-cal.html

"...Easter is the Sunday after the Paschal Full Moon. The Paschal Full Moon may occur from March 21 through April 18, inclusive...."

5 months AFTER.

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

5 months AFTER.

Yep, the AGM is supposed to present the financials for the last year...cant do that until the years over....and even then it appears to be a real struggle!!

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Actually talking about that....has anyone got the december magazine yet? If so did it have the financials in it, or are they still mising pressumed dead?

 

 

[damkia]

5 months AFTER.

My bad...

Although there is nothing that says you cannot have your financial year starting and finishing whenever you want. A lot of large companies use September 30 as their corporate end of year to relieve pressure on the "mid year" when all their subsidiaries/contractors are expected to finalize their paperwork. RA-Aus could call Dec 31 theirs.

 

 

[Guest airsick]

My bad...Although there is nothing that says you cannot have your financial year starting and finishing whenever you want. A lot of large companies use September 30 as their corporate end of year to relieve pressure on the "mid year" when all their subsidiaries/contractors are expected to finalize their paperwork. RA-Aus could call Dec 31 theirs.

True. But at this stage I think there are bigger things to worry about other than fiddling with the books to realign the financial year.

 

 

[drifterdriver]

Hi All,

 

As an ex-board member, the question that screams through my mind is why do so many members that I talk to have absolutely no idea of what is going on at the moment. It would be so damned easy to send a bulk email to each member outlining the problems and giving them a heads up that, "hey maybe this year you won't being going for your usual flight after Christmas lunch or whatever it is you do". I used to send the SQ members the odd email advising them of things like the AGM at Heck Field etc, it ain't that hard. By the way, if anyone's looking for a proxy form please email me at

 

[email protected]

 

P.S. Yes, as you can tell from my email address I was one of those accursed CFI board members

 

Cheers

 

Nick

 

 

[fly_tornado]

So did you do anything to improve communications when you where a board member nick? The vast majority of members have no idea of what's going on because that's how the board likes to operate. The easiest way to maintain power is keep everyone uninformed. The board have created the illusion that there is just a small group agitating about the CASA shut down but almost everyone that finds out seems to be outraged by the incompetence of the RAA management.