Driver v's Pilot skills (split from Lismore accident)

[Sapphire]

Moderatti note: Messages split from the Lismore incident thread and moved to a new thread for continued discussion.

 

I drive down the road looking at the standard of driving and think that some of these people have or will be gettting a pilots lic. If their driving is wishy washy how will that translate to their flying. It will translate to want to jump into their transport and GO in any weather at any time with the least boring preparation. They may even boast about close calls driving, doing wheelies, burnouts, where they ran out of fuel, and the on coming car they forced off the road. You can tell a lot about a person based on their driving . If their driving is wishy washy.......

 

 

[Yenn]

Are the pilots you know really that bad at driving cars. It is my experience that pilots are usually better drivers than the run of the mill>

 

 

[facthunter]

A correct mindset is important. Some bad aspects of driving would be indicators for flying. Attitude doesn't just refer to the orientation of the aircraft. I have met a few who should not fly, but not an overwhelming number, so perhaps some effective training is the reason. I have seen some shocking car drivers. Nev

 

 

[Sapphire]

Are the pilots you know really that bad at driving cars. It is my experience that pilots are usually better drivers than the run of the mill>

 

That's not what I said.

 

FH said" I have seen some shocking car drivers. Nev

 

They are shocking because the system allows them to drive at that standard. Some of them become pilots [or try to be]

 

 

[M61A1]

A correct mindset is important. Some bad aspects of driving would be indicators for flying. Attitude doesn't just refer to the orientation of the aircraft. I have met a few who should not fly, but not an overwhelming number, so perhaps some effective training is the reason. I have seen some shocking car drivers. Nev

I would factor in that most pilots want to fly, where most car drivers would really rather not drive. I think people that enjoy driving are generally better drivers, because they want to be better.

[Guernsey]

I wonder if the reverse could be true in some cases; how many good pilots 'pre-flight' their cars before driving ?

 

Alan.

 

 

[planedriver]

At The Metroplitan Police Driver Training School in London we were taught that good driving is an art---not just a pastime:cops:

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I would factor in that most pilots want to fly, where most car drivers would really rather not drive. I think people that enjoy driving are generally better drivers, because they want to be better.

So I love flying and want more of it, I let my wife do the driving, she likes it and I'd rather read a book or play on the laptop/tablet....The quicker they make a computer do all the driving work the better for all of us in many ways in my opinion. A good example is cross city driving, when a car is connected to the grid and able to communicate with all other cars then red lights I think will become a thing of the past, cars will all schedule their time and speeds to ensure no conflict and probably no stops. Speed limits that are in place to represent the safety required for the lowest common denominator driver will now have no real lowest common denominator so can be what it needs to be to be efficient and safe. Fatigue....wont really be an issue then.....

 

Flying however.....Dont want all of that for flying!!! even if it is just as achievable....

 

Andy

 

 

[Sapphire]

I wonder if the reverse could be true in some cases; how many good pilots 'pre-flight' their cars before driving ?Alan.

 

Since takeing up flying I spend more time "pre-flighting" my car

 

 

[winsor68]

You can tell a lot about a person based on their driving . If their driving is wishy washy.......

You can tell a lot about a person's parents based upon their driving IMO. Where else do kids learn to drive?

 

(and I don't mean when they get their learners... they are watching their parents drive all their lives from the backseat)

 

 

[M61A1]

So I love flying and want more of it, I let my wife do the driving, she likes it and I'd rather read a book or play on the laptop/tablet....The quicker they make a computer do all the driving work the better for all of us in many ways in my opinion. A good example is cross city driving, when a car is connected to the grid and able to communicate with all other cars then red lights I think will become a thing of the past, cars will all schedule their time and speeds to ensure no conflict and probably no stops. Speed limits that are in place to represent the safety required for the lowest common denominator driver will now have no real lowest common denominator so can be what it needs to be to be efficient and safe. Fatigue....wont really be an issue then.....Flying however.....Dont want all of that for flying!!! even if it is just as achievable....

 

Andy

While I agree completely that automated transport would be safer, I don't think I'd like it for the same reasons as you wouldn't like it for aviation. As much as I deplore that dismal standard of diving in QLD, I do like a good drive or ride.

[M61A1]

Since takeing up flying I spend more time "pre-flighting" my car

I personally would like to see some sort of pre-use inspection included as mandatory in the licencing, as it is in aviation and machinery licencing. I see many people driving "safely" at ridiculously low speeds with one or more half inflated tyres. The same people also seem to struggle to keep the vehicle in a marked lane.

[Guest aussieaviatrix]

You can tell a lot about a person's parents based upon their driving IMO. Where else do kids learn to drive?(and I don't mean when they get their learners... they are watching their parents drive all their lives from the backseat)

I've had my driver's licence for a bit over a year now (still to get my pilot's certificate though!). When on our Learners, my Dad was always trying to teach my sister and me to drive smoothly and to be easy on the car -- which he still talks about whenever he drives with me! (BTW, he is a mechanic by trade) I also notice the difference in fuel economy, in whether I've been nice to my car, especially driving around town. I bought my first car at the end of last year, and frequently get asked by Dad if I've done an "A Service", or checked my tyres, the oil and water. And I'd definitely agree that we drive like our parents -- especially the one we spend the most time with on our Learner's permits!

PS. And whenever I drive away from the service station, I feel like I've forgotten to disconnect the earth after refuelling!!

 

 

[Guest Howard Hughes]

Speed limits that are in place to represent the safety required for the lowest common denominator driver will now have no real lowest common denominator so can be what it needs to be to be efficient and safe.

We will still need slower speeds for iCar drivers, but at least they will be able to eat their apples as they speed across town...

 

 

[Sapphire]

being a Driving Assessor.....I have no comment..

 

 

 

 

Why not?

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

I've had my driver's licence for a bit over a year now (still to get my pilot's certificate though!). When on our Learners, my Dad was always trying to teach my sister and me to drive smoothly and to be easy on the car -- which he still talks about whenever he drives with me! (BTW, he is a mechanic by trade) I also notice the difference in fuel economy, in whether I've been nice to my car, especially driving around town. I bought my first car at the end of last year, and frequently get asked by Dad if I've done an "A Service", or checked my tyres, the oil and water. And I'd definitely agree that we drive like our parents -- especially the one we spend the most time with on our Learner's permits!PS. And whenever I drive away from the service station, I feel like I've forgotten to disconnect the earth after refuelling!!

"A Service" is what defence call the daily inspection....I take it he was ex defence? I dont think I've heard it called that anywhere else....

 

Andy

 

 

[winsor68]

I've had my driver's licence for a bit over a year now (still to get my pilot's certificate though!). When on our Learners, my Dad was always trying to teach my sister and me to drive smoothly and to be easy on the car -- which he still talks about whenever he drives with me! (BTW, he is a mechanic by trade) I also notice the difference in fuel economy, in whether I've been nice to my car, especially driving around town. I bought my first car at the end of last year, and frequently get asked by Dad if I've done an "A Service", or checked my tyres, the oil and water. And I'd definitely agree that we drive like our parents -- especially the one we spend the most time with on our Learner's permits!PS. And whenever I drive away from the service station, I feel like I've forgotten to disconnect the earth after refuelling!!

You are completely correct aviatrix. The problem IMO is that by the time you are old enough to have driver training with your Dad (or a driving school etc) it is too late... the "culture" is already ingrained. Most young people have no problem driving very responsibly... they do their 100 or more hours...they pass their driving test no worries. Then the real driver emerges... and it is all in the attitude or mind-set gleaned from the "culture" of the parents (or other elders).

Now... How many of us never break any road rules habitually? I know I DON'T and I am the only person I know who can honestly say that.

 

 

[Flying Librarian]

Being a truck driver I also should not comment due to the sheer amount of stupidity I see on the road all day long. The vast majority of car drivers drive to a reasonable standard, but its the "few" that really stand out that are truly dangerous. Often I think their issue is the failure to think beyond themselves, wether that be road conditions, traffic or what we all know as human factors.

 

Just my two bobs worth!!

 

 

[Guest aussieaviatrix]

"A Service" is what defence call the daily inspection....I take it he was ex defence? I dont think I've heard it called that anywhere else....Andy

No, not ex defence -- he did his apprenticeship years ago in New Zealand, perhaps it's from there, or it could just be what it used to be called. I should ask him! He's not in the industry now, but he does pretty much all the servicing on our cars (and our family hobby is vintage machinery).

 

You are completely correct aviatrix. The problem IMO is that by the time you are old enough to have driver training with your Dad (or a driving school etc) it is too late... the "culture" is already ingrained. Most young people have no problem driving very responsibly... they do their 100 or more hours...they pass their driving test no worries. Then the real driver emerges... and it is all in the attitude or mind-set gleaned from the "culture" of the parents (or other elders).Now... How many of us never break any road rules habitually? I know I DON'T and I am the only person I know who can honestly say that.

I must confess I started learning to drive when I was about 9.....we had a 22 acre block when we lived in the NT, and I started in the old Mazda ute and then we had an old mini moke that my sister and I used to run around in. We had a private dirt road that went to some of our neighbour's places, and we used to drive around there sometimes. However Dad was very careful to impress certain safety rules before we were ever allowed to drive on our own.

 

 

[winsor68]

You are game Flying Librarian! Poor professional truckies (the ones who feed us just as much as the farmers) get a hard time because of the "few" amongst their ranks also... Of course trucks are bigger targets and you certainly notice when it happens!

 

 

[pylon500]

I often find I get a pretty good first assessment of a student by the way they park their car, the first time they arrive.....

 

 

[Flying Librarian]

Very true Winsor. I hope every day I can get through unscathed. It's a bit like flying thinking that the fan can stop anytime. Not a bad mindset to have! Flying Librarian

 

 

[facthunter]

If you simplify it, it is a matter af being careless or careful with what you do. Nev

 

 

[Sapphire]

I often find I get a pretty good first assessment of a student by the way they park their car, the first time they arrive.....

 

If they turn up with a "sports exhaust" in a cloud of burning rubber taking up two parking spaces, do you send them solo early?

 

FL said:

 

Being a truck driver I also should not comment due to the sheer amount of stupidity I see on the road all day long. The vast majority of car drivers drive to a reasonable standard, but its the "few" that really stand out that are truly dangerous. Often I think their issue is the failure to think beyond themselves, wether that be road conditions, traffic or what we all know as human factors.

 

The issue of car drivers is well established but I have an issue with truck drivers who drive to the same standard. They are bigger and do more damage-a lot more. A small car tailgating me is an irritation but a big truck truck driven by a "professional" makes me wonder which corn flakes package he found his lic.

 

 

[pylon500]

do you send them solo early?

Not usually, and sometimes they get some little 'wakeup' calls in flight, ie EFTO's, LOTS of stall training , and the odd comment on how well they are starting to park their car