Crash north of Dubbo

[Patrick Normoyle]

Yep, the aircraft a write off but both pax survived, but that would probably have been the case if he had tried to be a PILOT IN COMAND !

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

Dazza, this was not Steve, I was there and there were 2 pax the PIC was a guy named David, unsure of the surname ?

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yep, the aircraft a write off but both pax survived, but that would probably have been the case if he had tried to be a PILOT IN COMAND !

Sounds like the PIC made a good decision then.;)

 

 

[Patrick Normoyle]

Motzartmerv, I don't think so, he didn't even give it a go, there were plenty of options, that aircraft is smooth and could have possible made it to he field, there were no other landing surfaces other than the ocean from where he was, but 600 or so feet, less than 1/2 nm from the field. I suppose, it may have been 50/50 in his mind but it looked like an easy midfield approach.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Yea. Maybe so. But We can't say anything for sure in an emergency. EFATO's have killed some pretty experienced pilots in what seem like benign circumstances.

 

This guy, made a decision at the time, which ended up with two blokes going home, wet, and an expensive aeroplane at the bottom of the drink, but 2 less numbers in the fatal column. All we can do sometimes is make the best of a bad situation.

 

Personally, I dont think a Cirrus would be able to turn back from 600 feet successfully.

 

cheers

 

 

[Sapphire]

Of couse we wern't there in the plane to analyse the situation when it hapened It's the glide angle distance that you have to judge by eye in seconds and determine if you can make it. 600 feet altitude means less than you think. Glider pilots judge glide angle distance every minute they are up. I am inclined to think that he decided to use that device in any suitable emergency, when he bought it. That, along with fully insuring the plane would in his mind give a winning outcome.

 

 

[turboplanner]

I think you'e got a good point Sapphire. That piece of equipment, on which he'd been trained would have been front of mind at the time. At 600 feet reflexes are more important than spending two or three seconds saying to your self "Now will I do this, or will I do that, and what do I estimate the distance as" with "BRS", "BRS", "BRS" thumping in your ears.

 

 

[dazza 38]

Dazza, this was not Steve, I was there and there were 2 pax the PIC was a guy named David, unsure of the surname ?

Hmmm, Steve Maltby put a Cirrus into the drink off Hamilton Is chrismas eve december 2009. Then there must have been 2 seperate cirrus engine failures/accident off Hamilton Is .

 

 

[Sapphire]

I think you'e got a good point Sapphire. That piece of equipment, on which he'd been trained would have been front of mind at the time. At 600 feet reflexes are more important than spending two or three seconds saying to your self "Now will I do this, or will I do that, and what do I estimate the distance as" with "BRS", "BRS", "BRS" thumping in your ears.

Thats a good point too, Turbo. He is climbing out and the engine fails at 600 feet. A lot of decisions and things to do. Now he has to stabilize the speed, do a 180 degree turn, decide if he can make it back [what is the glide angle, what is the glide performance of my a/c, will I have massive sinking air or lift getting back, will I have a tail wind or head wind, where do I go if I can't make it? Or he can pull a lever and parachute down with no more decisions to make.

 

 

[David Isaac]

Thats a good point too, Turbo. He is climbing out and the engine fails at 600 feet. A lot of decisions and things to do. Now he has to stabilize the speed, do a 180 degree turn, decide if he can make it back [what is the glide angle, what is the glide performance of my a/c, will I have massive sinking air or lift getting back, will I have a tail wind or head wind, where do I go if I can't make it? Or he can pull a lever and parachute down with no more decisions to make.

Or he could make the turn immediately without delay and if then realises he cannot make it back to the field, pull the red handle. That would likely be my first reaction; after all the BRS is his ultimate final option, why use it immediately if you know it will work. The big UNLESS of course is if a BRS does not activate safely below a certain altitude that he was very close to, and if so I would pull the handle to be sure to be sure ...

 

 

[Sapphire]

Another problem is as a power pilot you don't get much practice doing gliding, so getting it right is more uncertain. I admire airline pilots who have had all engines fail and land on some distant remote airfield that you can't even see initially. Having a co-pilot makes a big difference, one flying the a/c and one doing all the calculations.

 

 

[Kyle Communications]

A few years back an SR20 cirrus, departed Hamilton Island in the Whitsundays, the engine failed on the turn off crosswind onto track, the aircraft was at about 700 feet with 2 occupants, the pilot in command ( I use the term very loosely here ) didn't try a restart or return to the field even for a downwind landing ( about 7 knots ), he grabbed the oh "Jesus" handle ( not ment to offend any religious folks out there ) and floated down to the soft landing in the ocean. Very average in my opinion, I'm a fighter, I'll fight it all the way to a landing.

The aircraft would have been insured I would think......in that case it would be a no brainer...risk all on board or pull the handle and get a new aircraft later....I dont see the problem.....if he was at a much higher altitude it would be a different matter you would give it a go as you have time to do things and get ready

 

 

[dazza 38]

I dont know any details about the case Patrick has mentioned.

 

But in the engine failure Steve Maltby had. He tried to make it back towards Hamilton Is, realised that he wasnt going to make it back to the airfield.He decided to use the chute.As the aircraft hit the water, the aircraft flipped upside down. He couldnt open the doors, as they where jammed. (Could have been water pressure). He used a emergency hammer to smash a window & get himself out.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Strewth..Rough day at the office...!!!1

 

 

[Sapphire]

dazza said: He used a emergency hammer to smash a window & get himself out.

 

I've heard of that being done to tempered car window but how do you get it to work on an a/c plastic window. Especially bullet proof polycarbonate.

 

 

[motzartmerv]

Upside down, under water, fish swimming around the canopy, ....Id get through steel with a spoon if I had to..

 

 

[Sapphire]

Upside down, under water, fish swimming around the canopy, ....Id get through steel with a spoon if I had to..

 

But can you hold your breath that long motzart-it would take longer than one of your symphonies:smash pc:

 

 

[motzartmerv]

No, Daz said the pressure outside stopped him opening, which means there was no or little water inside..

 

 

[Guest Andys@coffs]

Yeah I reckon I would have used my teeth to gnaw through with the oddd headbutt! thrown in if there was a particularly tough spot!!....probably take a few seconds........

 

Those old enough to remember the tassie devil in the bugs bunny cartoons may well have though he and me were transposed had they been able to watch me in action!!!

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

Another problem is as a power pilot you don't get much practice doing gliding, so getting it right is more uncertain. I admire airline pilots who have had all engines fail and land on some distant remote airfield that you can't even see initially. Having a co-pilot makes a big difference, one flying the a/c and one doing all the calculations.

Over the last month I have personally done over 145 EFIC's or PFL's and some of my students have done over 10 in the last mth alone( each). The issue is not the training- I believe pilots fail to review these practical but essential aviating life skills in their day to day flying and therefore lose touch with the judgement, decision making and appropriate actions if and or when faced with it in reality.

 

Currency has to be a self imposed discipline for every pilot.

 

 

[pudestcon]

Over the last month I have personally done over 145 EFIC's or PFL's and some of my students have done over 10 in the last mth alone( each). The issue is not the training- I believe pilots fail to review these practical but essential aviating life skills in their day to day flying and therefore lose touch with the judgement, decision making and appropriate actions if and or when faced with it in reality.Currency has to be a self imposed discipline for every pilot.

I agree, just from my personal experience. Now for a newby, just over 100 hours total time, what should I be practising on a regular basis to stay current. Not just engine failures in the circuit I don't mean. All things in the flight skills bag. Make a list for me, and people like me please.

Pud

 

 

[Ballpoint 246niner]

I agree, just from my personal experience. Now for a newby, just over 100 hours total time, what should I be practising on a regular basis to stay current. Not just engine failures in the circuit I don't mean. All things in the flight skills bag. Make a list for me, and people like me please.Pud

Pud, where do I start.....

 

Every flight go up with 2 destinct plans I reckon.

 

First one have fun and be safe... 'there is no greater safety device than a free state of mind and a happy state of mind by the pilot at the controls of an aircraft"

 

Second- pick one part of your basic training and review your instructional notes, discuss with your instructor and then go out and practice it. Do this on every flight.

 

Third- review each exercise and have an honest introspective assessment of how you went. If you're not sure or satisfied( sounds like a good night out!!) then get an instructor to go up with you. I don't charge for a short review for our students, I like to encourage them and keep the communications open.

 

Great to see people who want to keep learning- this is the essence of flying I reckon.

 

Cheers:cheers:

 

 

[pylon500]

A pilot and too much money is soon flying more plane than he can handle?

I guess that should read, 'A pilot with too much money is soon flying a plane with a handle' !!